#geeknights | Logs for 2016-11-01

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[05:21:57] -!- Apsup has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
[08:24:15] <Bronz|work> Good morning.
[10:38:50] -!- Aria [Aria!Aria@hide-57D02771.agg2.bdt.bdt-fng.eircom.net] has joined #geeknights
[10:39:42] <Bronz|work> Hi Aria.
[10:40:31] <Aria> Hi!
[10:49:00] <Aria> How are things!
[10:55:02] <Bronz|work> Pretty good.
[10:55:39] <Bronz|work> Yourself?
[10:55:53] <Aria> I'm excited to eat this breakfast!
[10:56:11] <Bronz|work> Well, you know what they say. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day!
[10:57:05] <Aria> Also this GDC alk starts with "Thanks <for not going to see the other talk with> Peter Molyneux. I want to see Molyneux! Why isn't that video on YouTube?
[10:58:43] <Aria> Also fucking JA12!
[10:59:02] <Aria> This guy was like "How do I make gears line up somewhat correctly?"
[11:00:01] <Aria> And he replied 2 minutes 4 seconds later with a 2 minute 4 second video where he makes a gear drive the animation of two other gears and everything lines up >=(
[11:06:43] <Bronz|work> ...
[11:06:53] <Bronz|work> JA12 is the second coming of Jesus.
[11:07:15] <Aria> 12th
[11:07:24] <Bronz|work> Ah, yes.
[11:51:40] <Aria> I listened to a 20m GDC talk about how to write game dialog
[11:52:02] <Bronz|work> Did it help?
[11:52:10] <Aria> And the entire thing was them saying not to do the bad things that all games do. And it's true, all their examples were super common and terrible
[11:52:19] <Bronz|work> Was it "Try to make it generic and easy to read, don't worry about it being good?"
[11:52:37] <Aria> But also its all super obvious, anyone who has ever played (not made, played) a game could say all the things covered in this talk
[11:53:00] <Aria> Yes sorta
[11:53:48] <Bronz|work> If someone asked me how to write game dialog, that's what I would say.
[11:54:08] <Aria> I mean, that's what they said, plus some other things
[11:54:25] <Aria> Also they both worked at Bioware, who are massively guilty of making the mistakes they said to avoid
[11:54:30] <Aria> So I don't know what's up with that
[11:55:55] <Aria> Also the one time they recommended something to do, as opposed to something to avoid was this:
[11:57:42] <Aria> "Being able to choose between "Yes I'll take the quest because it's the right thing to do", vs, "Yes I'll take the quest, but you'll reward me for it", and "I'll take the quest because my character has invested interest in solving the main plot of the game and doing your quest furthers that" are meaningful choices". Which I mean, I guess it's not the worst, but no, those don't seem very meaningful
[11:58:28] <Aria> I mean even with good writing that obscures the actual choice you're making, it seems like those three would always sorta be obvious to the player as all being "Accept Quest: End conversation" in disguise
[11:58:58] <Bronz|work> Yeah...
[11:59:10] <Bronz|work> Still, better than just a "accept quest" button.
[11:59:40] <Aria> I'm not sure I agree with that
[11:59:50] <Aria> If those three options were presented on different screens, then yeah sure
[12:00:54] <Aria> But when you can choose between three ways of saying "sure dude, write your rat problem in my todo list", it can seem more gamey than the previous screen being the end of your two way conversation, and now you are using the in-game systems to say "I understood what the NPC wanted of me"
[12:02:35] <Aria> ...This other GDC talk, this one lady says she liked Kaiden
[12:02:38] <Aria> From Mass Effect
[12:02:44] <Aria> I mean, not with so many words
[12:03:12] <Aria> But there was a picture of him on screen while she was talking about people she likes, and it didn't have a cross over it or something
[12:03:25] <Bronz|work> I think being able to say "yeah, whatever, I'll write it on my todo list" could be good writing though.
[12:03:59] <Aria> Who likes Kaiden!?
[12:20:36] -!- Apsup [Apsup!~Apsup@hide-C3A41BC5.kortex.jyu.fi] has joined #geeknights
[12:20:55] <Aria> Hello Apsup. Do you like Kaiden?
[12:21:02] <Aria> (He's a character in Mass Effect, if you forgot)
[12:21:27] <Apsup> No. I remember him being boring.
[12:22:07] <Aria> OK thanks
[12:23:55] <Bronz|work> Thank you for your participation. Your hourly requirement has been fulfilled.
[12:27:56] <Aria> This talk also wasn't very good
[12:28:09] <Aria> I guess I should've know when she didn't have any qualifications
[12:28:40] <Aria> The last like 10% she was like "Oh shit I'm out of time! Gotta hurry up" and then it was good. But the first 90% was super slow and didn't go anywhere
[12:47:19] <Aria> This narrative Q&A thing is not very good
[12:54:34] <Aria> There are 6 people in this panel, but only one of them gives good answers
[12:57:24] <Aria> I want like a steamlink or something in the bathroom
[12:57:34] <Aria> So I can continue my video independant of video player
[12:57:56] <Bronz|work> Hmm...
[12:57:57] <Aria> I was on Linux I could use the WiiU gamepad
[12:58:09] <Bronz|work> Just VNC into your PC from your phone.
[13:10:08] <Bronz|work> I had to have lunch late, because there's a few people sick/on vacation.
[13:10:12] <Bronz|work> So I didn't get to have a pizza =(
[13:13:34] <Aria> Again?
[13:13:48] <Aria> Did you not take pizza from home either?
[13:14:34] <Bronz|work> ... no...
[13:41:52] <Aria> That was a waste of 50 minutes
[13:42:17] <Aria> Apsup, do you have any good GDC talks to recommend?
[13:50:54] <Bronz|work> Do you have them on while you model?
[13:51:14] <Aria> No, I should
[13:51:26] <Aria> That was my plan, but now I'm just watching GDC talks
[13:53:49] <Aria> There is a Blender space ship generator
[13:53:55] <Aria> But it doesn't seem to be..
[13:54:11] <Bronz|work> Generating?
[13:54:15] <Aria> focused on artistic expression?
[13:54:25] <Aria> You click a button and it gives you a spaceship
[13:54:29] <Aria> always in the same style
[13:55:03] <Aria> It has variables, but not for style or overall shape, just for creating specific variants of the ship it makes
[13:55:31] <Aria> https://raw.githubusercontent.com
[13:56:37] <Bronz|work> Ah, well, if that's the style of ship you're going for, I bet that could be fairly good for 1 faction in a game.
[13:56:54] <Bronz|work> That'd be cool, if every ship you build from your dockyard is a little unique
[13:57:09] <Aria> Sure. If you want to go for that kind of ship, it can make a bunch of those in seconds
[13:57:25] <Aria> But it doesn't have tools for letting you provide primitives for it to build based on
[13:57:47] <Bronz|work> If you know how to make those generators, you could make another generator for different ship styles
[13:57:52] <Aria> Or even making rounded designs
[13:58:15] <Bronz|work> I think it's still cool
[13:58:17] <Aria> I was hoping to use it for our city background
[13:58:37] <Aria> I figured the more unique buildings, the more fun it would be to cut them
[13:58:47] <Bronz|work> Yes.
[13:59:20] <Aria> I found a thing for making plants
[13:59:22] <Aria> ngplant
[13:59:47] <Aria> It does seem to have the tools you'd want, where you can supply your own leaves, and adjust a bunch of sliders
[14:06:36] <Aria> So this guy made his Amiibo level 50 in Smash without doing anything
[14:06:55] <Aria> And then started a ambiibo vs amiibo fight and it started doing things and having combat AI
[14:07:04] <Aria> So it punches and dodged and grabbed and was good at smash
[14:07:52] <Bronz|work> Hmm, I guess because it didn't have anything to latch onto, it became the most generic amiibo?
[14:08:18] <Aria> So right there, it should be obvious that is because your amiibo level is how good the AI is, and then when it learns from you, you're changing a bunch of variables and making it favor certain things it already knows how to do
[14:08:48] <Aria> But the guy in the youtube video was freaking out, not understanding how it knew how to do things that require button presses when it should've never learnt that
[14:09:18] <Aria> So the guy in the video must've thought that the Amiibo actually don't know how to play Smash and that they're learning from the player, as opposed to mimmicking the player
[14:09:32] <Aria> But the game just has non-amiibo stock AI opponents
[14:09:43] <Aria> Like, you've seen this stuff, it's not new
[14:09:47] <Bronz|work> Yeah...
[14:10:16] <Bronz|work> I mean, when you first start fighting them, they already have basic moves, by default.
[14:11:10] <Aria> Oh, I didn't realize
[14:11:28] <Aria> In the video it was standing still
[14:13:11] <Bronz|work> Was the amiibo secretly P2?
[14:15:02] <Aria> I think to sell the fiction, they're programmed not to start playing until the player presses something. Like, just the very first bit when the match starts and its a level 1
[14:23:35] <Bronz|work> I could see that...
[14:26:04] <Aria> I'm watching this talk by Chris Dahlen, the writer for Mark of the Ninja, where he proposes that you swap out your friendlyness meter with a respect meter and a rivalry meter if you want meaningful romantic relationships, and it's pretty convincing
[14:26:32] <Bronz|work> Yeah,, I could see that.
[14:29:28] <Aria> I want to surface both of those meters to the player
[14:30:15] <Aria> I think being able to go to a sub screen and feel you are cheating by looking at what the person you are aiming for thinks of you will be a pretty strong way of making them seem alive and rationalizing the way they behave
[14:32:03] <Bronz|work> Hmm, yeah.
[15:03:44] <Aria> I think I have too many characters
[15:04:14] <Aria> Tales games have 6-8, where I have 8/9
[15:08:38] <Bronz|work> Well...
[15:16:12] <Bronz|work> Hey Aria, what's the difference between 'da' and n
[15:16:21] <Bronz|work> *når
[15:18:12] <Aria> Da is always in the base, naar can also mean if
[15:18:31] <Aria> Actually, da can also mean if, or it can mean "then"
[15:18:36] <Bronz|work> "always in the base"?
[15:18:49] <Aria> "Well, you can do your thing then <after you've fulfilled the requirement>"
[15:18:50] <Bronz|work> They both mean when, right?
[15:19:09] <Aria> When I wrote base, I meant past..
[15:19:55] <Aria> Hey you still have 10m to ask at work
[15:19:56] <Bronz|work> Ok, so da is for past events, and når for future/current situations?
[15:20:07] <Bronz|work> That's true.
[15:20:33] <Aria> I was thinking that first, but then I remember a situation where they are interchangably for future use, so that's wrong
[15:24:57] <Bronz|work> I asked haakon, and he said the same thing you said.
[15:25:15] <Bronz|work> Though he said "My dialect uses da more than you're suppossed to...
[15:25:16] <Aria> Yeah but it's wrong.
[15:26:27] <Bronz|work> This article says you're correct, but also, it's mising half of the text? https://anewlifeinnorway.wordpress.com
[15:27:18] <Bronz|work> I was reading another article, but I just noticed it's actually Danish...
[15:28:56] <Bronz|work> Anyway, the rule seems to be "if it happened only once, and it's in the past, use da. If it's present, future or happens regularly, use når",
[15:29:12] <Aria> Sure
[15:29:15] <Aria> That works
[15:58:07] <Aria> I wish Windows had a way to make a monitor have a larger border than the number of bordering pixels
[16:00:59] <Bronz|work> I don't know what that means, exactly, but it sounds useful.
[16:01:24] <Aria> So when I move my cursor to the left side and beyond, it goes to the left screen
[16:01:34] <Aria> Even if the left screen is smaller than the right screen
[16:01:41] <Bronz|work> Ah, ok.
[16:01:47] <Aria> And by smaller I mean fewer pixels ]
[16:02:01] <Bronz|work> Right, a sort of DPI scaling, but for edge movement.
[16:02:17] <Aria> Yes
[16:05:56] <Bronz|work> Jarno just came by and talked about his new leadership ideas.
[16:06:11] <Bronz|work> It was just Johan and I here, so he basically told us.
[16:06:22] <Aria> I was about to say
[16:06:27] <Aria> But everyone has already left
[16:06:27] <Bronz|work> He plans to make us into a democracy instead of a dictatorship.
[16:06:42] <Aria> That's... not good
[16:06:43] <Bronz|work> (IE, everybody gets a say in the rules of the desk, and we all agree on what the issues are)
[16:06:53] <Aria> Because his work force is largly young and inexperienced
[16:06:55] <Bronz|work> And then also a mood marble/jar idea.
[16:07:18] <Bronz|work> Where at the end of the day, you deposite one of three marbles (red, orange, green) to match what kind of day you had.
[17:01:08] <Bronz|work> Ok, bye
[17:01:18] <Aria> Bye