#geeknights | Logs for 2014-04-18

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[09:35:46] <Apsup_> Hello people.
[09:39:26] <Bronzdragon> Hey Apsup_
[09:41:44] <Apsup_> For some reason I'm ghosting. There must have been an some kind of connection hickup here.
[09:42:01] <Bronzdragon> Hmm...
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[15:00:30] <Bronzdragon> pence, yoshokatana.
[15:00:37] <pence> we arrive
[15:00:49] <Bronzdragon> Indeed.
[15:01:04] <Bronzdragon> I'm midly hungry.
[15:01:10] <Bronzdragon> I should buy food and also make lunch.
[15:01:14] <yoshokatana> hallo
[15:01:36] <yoshokatana> I’m trying to figure out the best way to handle database stuff when using git feature branches
[15:02:44] <Bronzdragon> Sounds fun and IT-ish.
[15:11:19] <yoshokatana> bleh
[15:11:33] <yoshokatana> we have multiple different named dbs (depending on the environment)
[15:12:02] <yoshokatana> and I need to make it so we can also switch branches and work with branch-separated-dbs (or something of the sort) without everything breaking
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[15:12:54] <apreche> linode upgrade ftw
[15:14:38] <yoshokatana> apreche: have you done this whole ‘switching / creating / destroying databases automatically when checking out different git branches’ thing?
[15:15:24] <apreche> no, why would I do that?
[15:15:41] <apreche> if you need that, there's an easy solution
[15:15:47] <yoshokatana> here’s a concrete example:
[15:15:50] <apreche> since you're in development, not production
[15:15:52] <apreche> use sqlite
[15:15:55] <apreche> and checking the sqlite db
[15:15:59] <apreche> done
[15:16:24] <yoshokatana> I have a LAMP server, with a project that has a ‘dev’ branch
[15:16:41] <yoshokatana> one developer branched off to make a bloggy thing, so she’s on the ‘blog’ branch
[15:17:00] <yoshokatana> and I branched off dev to redo a signup form, so I’m on the ‘signup’ branch
[15:17:48] <yoshokatana> but there are database updates that need to be done for both branches, that we don’t want to do globally (e.g. we don’t want the db updates to reflect on ‘dev’ or on our respective branches, if they don’t apply to our branch)
[15:18:11] <apreche> you have some sort of migration system
[15:18:13] <apreche> right?
[15:18:39] <yoshokatana> we do, but it’s mostly just used for pushing stuff to production
[15:18:50] <apreche> well, you should be using it everywhere
[15:18:55] <apreche> whenever I checkout a branch
[15:19:05] <apreche> that has a different db
[15:19:16] <apreche> I restore the database from the latest production back
[15:19:17] <apreche> up
[15:19:20] <apreche> and then run the migrations
[15:19:23] <apreche> to move it forward
[15:19:27] <apreche> takes < a minute
[15:19:42] <yoshokatana> hmm
[15:19:53] <yoshokatana> do you do that manually, or have a post-checkout-hook?
[15:20:07] <apreche> you could do it in a hook if you wanted to
[15:20:09] <apreche> i guess
[15:20:12] <apreche> i don't like to automate things
[15:20:15] <apreche> typing is not hard
[15:20:23] <yoshokatana> yeah
[15:20:39] <yoshokatana> typing isn’t hard, but when something breaks I’m the guy who has to unbreak it :p
[15:21:28] <yoshokatana> so I’d like to automate just enough, so the other devs don’t have to think about it too much
[15:22:15] <apreche> if a dev can't handle a database restore and mgiration
[15:22:16] <apreche> fire them
[15:37:41] <Bronzdragon> Hey apreche!
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[15:58:39] <GauntletWizard> Script a freaking restore and migration
[15:58:57] <GauntletWizard> otherwise, forgetful devs will break things
[15:59:02] <GauntletWizard> or fat fingher
[15:59:05] <GauntletWizard> or whatever
[16:00:58] <apreche> people are so trusting of automation
[16:01:05] <apreche> i find automation usually just causes problems
[16:01:11] <apreche> because 90% of the time it does what you want
[16:01:18] <apreche> and 10% of the time it does what it was supposed to do
[16:01:25] <apreche> but that time things were different
[16:01:32] <apreche> and you didn't want it to do its thing
[16:03:36] <apreche> unless you are doing exactly the same thing every time
[16:03:38] <apreche> with no exceptions
[16:03:45] <apreche> or you have a zillion machines to manage
[16:04:01] <apreche> ~i like to keep it manual
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[17:15:22] <Apsup_> It's time for Jojo!
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[18:04:45] <GauntletWizard> my job is to whack you on the head for that logic, apreche
[18:05:07] <GauntletWizard> If it takes you twice as long the 10% of the time, then you've still had a huge time savings
[18:12:40] <spacejam> did i miss some logic
[18:15:49] <GauntletWizard> yes, about two hours ago
[18:17:18] <spacejam> i seem to have narrowly dodged it
[18:46:08] <Bronzdragon> It wasn't god logic.
[18:47:05] <Bronzdragon> I meant to type "good".
[19:12:32] <apreche> except that 10% of the time doesn't just take longer
[19:12:35] <apreche> it breaks everything
[19:12:40] <apreche> I take the path of never breakage
[19:13:04] <Bronzdragon> Surely, you can fix it.
[19:13:17] <apreche> sure, but never breaking int he first place is vastly superior
[19:13:43] <Bronzdragon> Fixing it has to take 10x longer for it to be worse, and that's assuming the rediculous 10% failure rate.
[19:14:07] <apreche> breaking one time is too many
[19:14:12] <apreche> it's not about time saving
[19:14:16] <apreche> reliability is more important
[19:14:17] <Bronzdragon> Besides, doing it manually allowed for user error, which can break stuff itself
[19:14:21] <spacejam> is this about condoms?
[19:14:23] <apreche> i'm willin to spend more time to make sure everything always works
[19:14:45] <apreche> we're not talkinga bout user error, but developer error
[19:14:56] <apreche> the chances of developer error are equal
[19:15:10] <spacejam> maybe openssl condoms...
[19:15:16] <apreche> you can mess up while entering command line commands just as much as you can write buggy automation code
[19:16:10] <spacejam> selenium condom acceptance testing!
[19:16:34] <Bronzdragon> I'll grant you this; It's very situational
[19:17:05] <Bronzdragon> There's some times where making automation code is easy enough, and there it's better.
[19:17:16] <Bronzdragon> If it gets very complicated, maybe think about doing it manually.
[19:17:26] <spacejam> what platform for automation
[19:25:04] <GauntletWizard> http://xkcd.com
[19:25:28] <spacejam> guessing in advance: is that the "now there are 19 of them"
[19:25:36] <GauntletWizard> Nope
[19:25:41] <spacejam> oh, shucks
[19:25:44] <spacejam> this is a good one too though
[19:25:45] <GauntletWizard> it is one literally entitled "Automation"
[19:25:57] <spacejam> time to go back to my 1% unit test coverage codebase
[19:26:03] <GauntletWizard> Randall has a cynical view on automation, though
[19:26:11] <GauntletWizard> I'm a firm believer
[19:26:12] <spacejam> automation is what it is
[19:26:14] <spacejam> if it works it works
[19:29:36] <spacejam> i never saw 1017 before
[19:29:39] <spacejam> that could be useful
[19:32:55] <Bronzdragon> Randal Both Kickass Torrents and the Piratebay are down.
[19:32:57] <Bronzdragon> Worrying.
[19:33:46] <Apsup_> oh no.
[19:34:05] <GauntletWizard> I'm wondering what half-formed thought you were going to type that you only got "Randal " into, bronz
[19:34:15] <Bronzdragon> Oh, right
[19:34:19] <Bronzdragon> Randal is always cynical.
[19:34:25] <Bronzdragon> That's what I was gonna say. But he's not.
[19:34:43] <Bronzdragon> He's not very cinical when it comes to the wonders of science and the universe, but very when it comes to people.
[19:56:31] <Bronzdragon> I'm not trying to be racist, but...
[19:56:51] <Bronzdragon> Well, I think all people should be judged by abillity and character, primarily.
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[21:26:15] <GauntletWizard> ...
[21:26:19] <Bronzdragon> !!!
[21:26:42] <GauntletWizard> Any sentence that is preceeded with "I'm not trying to be racist, but..." is invalid
[21:26:59] <GauntletWizard> so, obviously, people should be judged not by ability and character, but by race.
[21:27:01] <spacejam> it kind of ruins any sentence
[21:27:07] <GauntletWizard> http://www.erfworld.com is a really interesting bit of game theory
[21:27:24] <GauntletWizard> Actually, all of Erfworld is pretty much explorations on game theory
[21:27:27] <GauntletWizard> and good ones
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