#geeknights | Logs for 2012-11-12

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[00:23:53] Bronz is now known as Bronzdragon
[00:24:05] <Bronzdragon> I like to [blank]
[00:27:53] -!- yoshokatana [yoshokatana!yoshokatan@hide-3567B4F5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #geeknights
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[00:34:23] <Bronzdragon> And thus ends the Yoshokatana adventure.
[00:46:24] -!- Coldguy [Coldguy!4b5df963@hide-BF4D4B18.mibbit.com] has joined #geeknights
[00:50:27] <Bronzdragon> Hey lukewarm guy!
[00:50:34] <Bronzdragon> Wait, no, I think I got that wrong.
[00:50:40] <Coldguy> hi hi
[01:05:57] <Bronzdragon> So, wutcha upto, guy?
[01:13:31] <Bronzdragon>
[01:15:53] <Coldguy> nm
[01:16:02] <Coldguy> got a fever\
[01:16:02] <Bronzdragon> I C I C
[01:16:10] <Coldguy> not the good kinsd
[01:18:18] <Bronzdragon> There's a good kind of fev-- ah right
[01:18:25] <Bronzdragon> Saterday night fever!
[01:19:36] <Coldguy> ah well installing ns2 and got sunday night football with just cause2]
[02:50:57] <aria> Nine
[02:51:05] <aria> do you use the canctus with a shield?
[02:51:13] <nine> 5<3 aria.
[02:51:20] <nine> Ceastus?
[02:51:21] <nine> No.
[02:51:29] <nine> One piece of leather in each fist.
[02:51:37] <aria> Hrm
[02:51:40] <aria> But my reach is so low
[02:51:41] <nine> I haven't done much with Master Roshi though.
[02:51:43] <aria> how do you stagger people?
[02:51:47] <nine> I just wanted to see how silly it is.
[02:51:59] <nine> You don't stagger them.
[02:52:28] <aria> I can see it working with the leoring
[02:52:45] <aria> but otherwise, its really hard to go up against enemies that are stronger than you
[02:53:02] <nine> Leo Ring only works with thrust attacks, no?
[02:53:12] <nine> Caestus does strike, doesn't it?
[02:53:30] <aria> Oh? I thought it was anything that was a counter
[02:53:32] <aria> Well fuck
[02:54:03] <aria> The only way Ive found of being successful is doing a sprint attack to stagger then spam
[02:55:21] <nine> Lemme check.
[02:55:27] <nine> I fuck up the rings.
[03:17:39] <okeefe> You can totally just sit down and play Dungeon World. The GM asks the players questions about the world to get started. Having a basic plot is useful; you don't need to preplan a map or dungeon although that could be helpful.
[03:22:37] <Bronzdragon> Who are you replying to?
[03:22:49] <Bronzdragon> Or are you just mentioning that in general?
[03:23:16] <okeefe> This was from ~8 hours ago. :)
[03:25:33] <pence> I remember it well
[03:26:34] <pence> I forget who it was, someone crystalized it at burning con - they mentioned they don't really know how to run dungeon world, and I realized I kind of don't either.
[03:26:43] <pence> I have no problem with Apocalypse World, but DW is tough for me.
[03:26:59] <Coldguy> courioous
[03:27:06] <okeefe> I've run DW one-shots, but haven't run AW yet. Kind of excited about it.
[03:27:15] <Coldguy> would people be interested in going to gen con if I were to go?
[03:27:37] <okeefe> I will be at Gen Con.
[03:28:11] <okeefe> I forget if there's a forum thread about it... I don't think so, but I have mentioned Gen Con there before.
[03:28:32] <Coldguy> i think I want to see it this year
[03:28:40] <Coldguy> trying to schedule my con calendar
[03:29:33] <okeefe> Get a hotel room EARLY. Like, the second they go on sale, start hammering the website.
[03:30:02] <okeefe> Add the Gen Con schedule to your calendar: When badges go on sale, when the hotel rooms go up, etc.
[03:30:42] <Coldguy> pax craxy?
[03:31:03] <Coldguy> also any "prime" hotels I should aim towards?
[03:31:13] <okeefe> There will probably be enough hotel rooms, but if you have a preference you need to be on the ball.
[03:31:35] <Coldguy> ok what are the ideal one iyo]
[03:31:47] <Coldguy> *ones
[03:32:20] <okeefe> I go Embassy Suites, because I know other people will be there, there's indie games downstairs, and there's a free-booze happy hour ever evening. It's not the closest to the convention center, but its is connected via the walkways (habitrails).
[03:32:45] <Coldguy> if it is connected its fine byt me
[03:32:51] <Coldguy> any alternates?
[03:33:37] <okeefe> I have no other preference, really, as long as it's connected.
[03:34:05] <Coldguy> okk cool
[03:34:46] <okeefe> We should start a Gen Con thread as it gets closer. Or early next year when badges go on sale.
[03:34:49] <Coldguy> so far its MAGfest, Pax EASt, Connecticon, Gen Con, maybe Gamma
[03:35:07] <Coldguy> I was told to start to lunk in January
[03:35:57] <okeefe> PAX East and Gen Con are my two big cons. Not sure if I want to try PAX Prime next year...
[03:36:16] <Coldguy> from what i heard it is more the same
[03:36:31] <Coldguy> ws told if you gone to one you are not missing much at the other
[03:36:46] <okeefe> Yeah, I don't know Seattle as well and would definitely need to find hotel roommates.
[03:37:20] <Coldguy> the iossue for me is travel
[03:37:27] <Coldguy> i can cram 10 deep or more
[03:37:27] <Robobuntu> you can't cram 10 deep!
[03:37:37] <Coldguy> since 90% of timhe time is at the con floor
[03:38:06] <Coldguy> O.o the bot gained vintellengence?
[03:38:32] <okeefe> It knows about numbers now.
[03:39:44] <Coldguy> fuck
[03:39:51] <Coldguy> otacon and anime boston
[03:40:00] <Coldguy> my gal wants me to go to otakon
[03:40:58] -!- nine has quit [Quit: leaving]
[03:43:10] <Coldguy> ill miss zenkai due to the conflict
[03:43:16] <Coldguy> maybe too many games
[03:43:26] * Coldguy needs more money
[03:44:07] <Bronzdragon> Don't we all?
[03:44:15] <Coldguy> uyea
[03:49:33] <Coldguy> wbc
[03:49:38] <Coldguy> damn
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[04:08:07] <aria> I have to have 34 str to use the weapon I wanna use
[04:08:15] <aria> at 36 I can use the OP shield
[04:08:16] <Robobuntu> 36 i, might lose...
[04:08:21] <aria> I wonder if I can have both and still quick roll
[04:10:55] <Coldguy> ?
[04:12:38] <aria> Dark Souls, don't worry..
[04:12:46] <Coldguy> OK
[04:12:47] <aria> Stat requirements for gear
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[14:40:22] <creamsteak> rawr
[14:40:42] <Bronzdragon> hi creamsteak
[14:40:53] <creamsteak> Hello!
[14:44:38] <aria> Rawr
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[14:49:04] <apreche> what what
[15:00:46] <aria> in the butt?
[15:02:08] -!- Apsup [Apsup!Aleksi@hide-B4B1B39B.kortex.jyu.fi] has joined #geeknights
[15:03:20] <Apsup> Hullo
[15:04:02] <aria> hi
[15:05:57] <Bronzdragon> Apsup.
[15:08:51] <Apsup> It's my nick, yes.
[15:09:45] <aria> Where do I get dragon scales?
[15:09:50] <Apsup> Blah, oneshot at rpg club tonight. One-shots are my weakness. And I have nothing prepared.
[15:09:59] <Apsup> From dragons and other similar creatures.
[15:12:26] <aria> Is the Severer any good? never used it
[15:12:50] <apreche> do you want to steal my Burning Con one-shot?
[15:14:53] <Apsup> I'm not sure if I have access to a printer to print character sheets, but I'd love to take a look at it, even if I don't end up playing it.
[15:15:17] <apreche> did I scan it an dput it on google drive...
[15:20:48] <Apsup> Well I go and do some fast shopping, if you find it throw me a link or something.
[15:25:47] <Bronzdragon> Why do you shop so much
[15:26:05] <Bronzdragon> +?
[15:29:30] <apreche> haha, I do have it online
[15:32:25] <apreche> https://docs.google.com
[15:32:29] <apreche> wait, I think that's wrong
[15:32:44] <apreche> oh, no, it's right
[15:33:03] <apreche> So the way you run it
[15:33:10] <apreche> is the knight is played by the GM
[15:33:17] <apreche> the four players stereotypically start in the tavern
[15:33:25] <apreche> give them a chance to act if they want
[15:33:29] <apreche> then the knight shows up
[15:33:37] <apreche> all bloody and wounded
[15:33:49] <apreche> he's also carrying a sack of loot, and a golden flute that may be noticed
[15:33:51] <apreche> then shit goes on
[15:34:08] <apreche> and then when you need to spice up the action
[15:34:15] <apreche> the monster shows up, the knight didn't kill it
[15:34:47] <apreche> you can explain it however you want
[15:50:53] <Apsup> I thank you, but it seems that I'm unable to use it. My printer is out of ink and a room downstairs with printer is out of use although it was supposed to open up again early this month. But I might use that scenario later, when I do I'll tell how it goes.
[15:51:57] <aria> Put it on your laptop/tablet
[15:53:03] <Bronzdragon> TOO PRACTICAL
[15:53:31] <Apsup> Kinda hard to give out character sheets that are inside laptop.
[15:54:30] <apreche> you have a deskjet printer, don't you?
[15:54:32] <Apsup> Sad thing is that there seems to be red ink on my printer, if there just were an easy way to say to printer "print black things with red."
[15:54:42] <Apsup> yes
[15:54:46] <apreche> there is a way to do that
[15:54:47] <apreche> it's called photoshop
[15:54:48] <apreche> but
[15:54:51] <apreche> I suggest
[15:54:56] <apreche> do not buy more ink for your printer
[15:54:59] <apreche> just throw the whole thing out
[15:55:09] <apreche> and purchase a monochrome laser printer
[15:55:30] <apreche> if you need one at all
[15:55:50] <aria> Change the font color
[15:56:26] <Apsup> If they would get the room downstairs back into action I could use that. Also there are printers at university for important stuff.
[15:56:46] <apreche> I have been down the monochrome laser path for years now
[15:56:47] <apreche> it's great
[15:56:54] <apreche> prints faster, never have to buy overpriced ink
[15:57:03] <apreche> even does duplex to save paper
[15:57:20] <Apsup> Sadly shuch printers cost money, something I don't have.
[15:57:29] <apreche> cheaper than deskjet ink
[15:57:54] <apreche> You can get the laser printer for maybe $50-$75
[15:58:04] <apreche> and that's new, not used
[15:58:19] <apreche> and then one toner cartridge is about the same price as desjket ink, maybe $50
[15:58:23] <apreche> but it lasts for years
[15:59:46] <Apsup> Gotta go, talk to you all later, bye.
[16:05:46] <aria> =( Someone someoned me, but I couldn't find them
[16:05:56] <aria> I run around looking for him, and then it tells me he's dead =(
[16:28:12] <creamsteak> I really wish people at my company liked to plan things out before jumping into them...
[16:28:52] <aria> Whaaat?
[16:28:54] <aria> Crazy
[16:29:11] <Bronzdragon> Planning is for people who like postponing and slacking
[16:30:47] <creamsteak> obviously
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[16:49:36] <ProfPangloss|Work> Last week of co-op
[16:49:36] <ProfPangloss|Work> Gogogo
[17:21:28] -!- spacejam [spacejam!spacejam@hide-17DB3144.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #geeknights
[17:35:58] <aria> God damn
[17:36:02] <aria> I need another 4 levels
[17:36:11] <aria> Im already level 49 =(
[17:36:19] <aria> Why do people use heavy weapons in this game?
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[18:05:55] <nine> Hi.
[18:08:17] <aria> Nine
[18:08:27] <aria> I need fucking 3 more levels
[18:08:48] <aria> But I can't proceed
[18:08:52] <aria> it sucks
[18:08:59] <aria> Cause spider lady gives like 2 souls
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[18:21:46] <nine> Wut.
[18:22:01] <nine> What level you at?
[18:22:08] <nine> And just co-op a bit.
[18:23:53] <nine> Also, Vagina Dragon gives more souls.
[18:28:56] <aria> It does
[18:28:59] <aria> Like 50 billion
[18:29:04] <aria> trying to get to 34 str
[18:29:21] <aria> Level 51
[18:29:28] <aria> But I can't go to Sens yet
[18:29:33] <aria> so I can only do pre-sens things
[18:29:45] <aria> I guess I can go take Sif..
[18:35:55] <nine> Ouch.
[18:35:59] <nine> That's a bit harder yeah.
[18:36:28] <nine> Kill Hydra, co-op for Vagina.
[18:36:49] <aria> Killed both hydras. Ill coop vagina in a bit
[18:43:27] <nine> Man, how the hell can you be lvl 51 and not even have 34 str?
[18:43:40] <nine> Did you get 20 vit and end?
[18:44:02] <nine> My not-a-bandit has 26 str at lvl 16.
[18:44:03] <Robobuntu> 26 str, might lose...
[18:44:39] * nine claps.
[18:45:13] <aria> ...
[18:45:18] <aria> Thats more str than total levels
[18:45:38] <aria> Actually: Im not cheating. Its hard to have more points than levels when not cheating
[18:46:47] <nine> Not really.
[18:47:02] <nine> Every class starts with more points than levels for every stat.
[18:47:12] <nine> Also, 12+14=?
[18:47:31] <aria> Who starts with fucking 12 STR?
[18:47:37] <nine> ...
[18:47:39] <nine> Pyromancer.
[18:47:42] <nine> You twat.
[18:48:20] <aria> Also, this is the character where I leveled vit
[18:48:23] <aria> So I have 20 vit
[18:48:33] * nine claps
[18:48:35] <nine> Hurray.
[18:48:38] <nine> That explains. :)
[18:48:57] <aria> Also 26 end...
[18:48:58] <Robobuntu> 26 end, might lose...
[18:49:22] <nine> Should've planned a bit better I think.
[18:49:28] <nine> Why are you still not in Sen's?
[18:49:28] <aria> meh
[18:49:33] <nine> Want to gravelord Sen's?
[18:49:37] <aria> Cause I have to wait for a different character
[18:49:51] <nine> My pyromancer is that.
[18:50:05] <nine> Joe Boomer and I are helping a few friends who started their first playthrough.
[18:50:19] <nine> Moonlight Butterfly is horrendously fucked in co-op.
[18:50:36] <nine> Attacks fly 20 feet overhead, and hit the host who's on the other side of the bridge.
[18:50:39] <nine> It's cray-cray.
[18:50:42] <aria> Yup
[18:50:45] <aria> That happens
[18:51:43] <aria> I wasn't gonna use this weapon
[18:51:44] <nine> So I told Joe to gtfo and then we asked Beatrice to help.
[18:51:51] <aria> so I didn't think Id need str
[18:51:52] <nine> Which weapon?
[18:51:53] <aria> or dex
[18:51:55] <nine> Greatsword?
[18:52:10] <aria> Im using a great axe. Gonna use the dragon great sword in 2 levels...
[18:52:17] <nine> Oh, that one.
[18:52:22] <aria> I was gonna use the pike
[18:52:24] <nine> Nice.
[18:52:26] <aria> When I made this character
[18:52:33] <aria> so I just kept leveling end whenever I had souls
[18:52:34] <nine> You should've stuck to that.
[18:52:35] <aria> which was always
[18:52:37] <nine> I'm making a club wielder.
[18:52:42] <aria> The pike does 2 damage
[18:52:45] <nine> My wooden stick two-shots Stone Giants.
[18:52:49] <nine> It was hilarious.
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[18:53:01] <spacejam> this is the best advertising for this game ever
[18:53:17] <nine> Everyone was surprised when I just slapped a wooden stick against that stone ass, and it fell over.
[18:55:13] <nine> I'm gonna try and get a bigger stick with my 26 str, and hit things with that.
[18:55:14] <Robobuntu> 26 str, might lose...
[18:55:17] <Apsup> I don't think any amount of context would make sence to that.
[18:55:19] <nine> And poison them to boot.
[18:55:25] <nine> Apsup: <3
[18:55:34] <spacejam> haha
[18:55:38] <nine> Just one-upping a previous comment that spacejam thought was best advertising.
[18:55:53] <aria> I punch people with a giant bone
[18:56:10] <aria> that is as long as your arm, and as thick as the rest of you curled into a thick ball
[18:56:19] <Bronzdragon> I also punch people with my boner sometimes
[18:56:27] <Bronzdragon> It's not that long or thick...
[18:56:28] <aria> Hi
[18:56:31] <Bronzdragon> But, y'know
[18:56:33] <Bronzdragon> (Hai)
[18:56:55] <nine> Hi.
[18:56:58] <spacejam> oi
[18:56:58] <aria> Btw Nine, I was waiting for Bronz to eat dinner. When he left I was SL like 30
[18:57:02] <aria> Im 52 now
[18:57:11] <nine> gj gj
[18:57:14] <nine> One more.
[18:57:18] <aria> Finally I can go kill some stronger bosses
[18:57:22] <nine> One vagina enough to get to 53?
[18:57:23] <aria> Yeah... one more...
[18:57:35] <aria> I need 16k
[18:57:36] <nine> Or do you have to get to 54?
[18:57:37] <aria> I have 5
[18:57:44] <aria> 53 is enough
[18:57:45] <nine> Oh, should be close.
[18:57:50] <nine> 12.5k for Vagina.
[18:57:54] <aria> Perfect
[18:57:57] <Bronzdragon> ...
[18:57:59] <aria> Ill go bone some vagina then
[18:58:00] <Bronzdragon> Stupid vagina
[18:58:15] <Bronzdragon> Do you need help boning the vagina?
[18:58:20] <Bronzdragon> I mean, I can soften her up for you
[18:58:26] <Bronzdragon> Maybe get her attention...
[18:58:31] <Bronzdragon> distract her with something shiny?
[18:58:32] <aria> I think I've already killed her
[18:58:38] <nine> I still wish cross-platform multiplayer was done.
[18:58:40] <aria> so Ill have to be a phantom
[18:58:45] <aria> Yeah...
[18:58:49] <Bronzdragon> Yeah yeah...
[18:58:59] <Bronzdragon> Oh, right, Nine is master race
[18:59:04] <Bronzdragon> And we're console plebes
[18:59:21] <nine> Plebeians. ;_;
[18:59:21] <aria> Well...
[18:59:29] <nine> I need my peasants to kiss my toes.
[18:59:31] <aria> if we had cross platform play, we'd have to deal with PC hackers
[18:59:47] <nine> Now you just have to deal with xbawks hackers.
[19:00:03] <aria> Xbawks hackers are a bit more rare. Also, they're limited to save game editing
[19:00:06] <Bronzdragon> I guess Plebs
[19:00:07] <aria> No packet editing
[19:00:10] <aria> sending over deaths and such
[19:00:10] <Bronzdragon> Not Plebes.
[19:00:18] <nine> Wut?
[19:00:24] <nine> I haven't heard 'bout that on PC.
[19:00:38] <spacejam> plebs are needed!
[19:00:52] <aria> They don't do that? I'd do that...
[19:01:19] <nine> Packet editting is a lot harder than checking a box and being a faggot.
[19:01:26] <nine> And PC hackers are also rare.
[19:01:43] <Bronzdragon> Pop quiz!
[19:02:01] <Bronzdragon> What civilization is the term pleb from?
[19:02:12] <nine> Eastern Europe.
[19:02:18] <nine> Russian possibly.
[19:02:33] <Bronzdragon> Wrong-ish
[19:02:43] <spacejam> i guess i gave away that i know the answer
[19:02:43] <nine> Ish?
[19:02:46] <Bronzdragon> I mean, the term was used there at some point (Not russia)
[19:02:46] <nine> So not dead wrong?
[19:02:50] <Bronzdragon> but you don't name a time
[19:02:51] <Bronzdragon> so...
[19:02:59] <nine> You said "what"
[19:03:01] <nine> Not "when".
[19:03:02] <Bronzdragon> Or rather, a specific civilization
[19:03:07] <nine> Here, let me answer it.
[19:03:10] <aria> Yeah, but name change
[19:03:12] <nine> ENGLISH, WESTERN CIVILIZATION.
[19:03:15] <Bronzdragon> "eastern Europe" is not a civilization
[19:03:16] <nine> BANG, RIGHT, FUCK YOU.
[19:03:17] <aria> same geographical area
[19:03:23] <aria> different province
[19:03:30] <Bronzdragon> Wrong, it's not FROM English
[19:04:01] <nine> You asked "what".
[19:04:06] <Bronzdragon> Anyway, if your next guess was going to be "Ancient Rome" or "The Roman empire" You'd still be wrong because your first guess was wrong.
[19:04:07] <nine> I am part of the western civilization.
[19:04:12] <nine> I use the term.
[19:04:14] <nine> Check mate.
[19:04:15] <Bronzdragon> I didn't ask "what"
[19:04:23] <nine> Plebeians 0, Master race: 9.
[19:04:24] <Bronzdragon> I asked "What civilization is the term pleb from?"
[19:04:31] <Bronzdragon> there's like 6 more words...
[19:04:32] <Robobuntu> 6 more, can't lose!
[19:04:35] <spacejam> best pop quiz ever.
[19:04:50] <nine> Worst pop quiz master ever.
[19:04:58] <nine> How many minutes have passed?
[19:05:03] <nine> No buzzer, no timer, no reveal.
[19:05:09] <nine> Would not subscribe to your news letter.
[19:06:15] <aria> This is the live stream. The archived version is edited down
[19:07:36] <nine> :|
[19:07:43] <nine> Bronzdragon: reveal the freaking answer.
[19:07:49] <nine> You Polish wanabee.
[19:10:26] <Bronzdragon> ... I did
[19:10:32] <Bronzdragon> Ancient rome.
[19:10:55] <aria> (the resturant)
[19:11:59] <nine> Oh you did.
[19:12:02] <Bronzdragon> ...
[19:12:03] <nine> You're still a shitty quizmaster.
[19:12:08] <Bronzdragon> I lost 10.000 souls
[19:12:09] <Bronzdragon> =(
[19:12:12] <nine> I didn't see the wall of text.
[19:12:25] <aria> D0
[19:12:26] <aria> D=
[19:12:29] <aria> You need those souls
[19:12:44] <Bronzdragon> Kinda, yeah
[19:12:44] <nine> No you don't.
[19:13:15] <nine> You'll have half a million if you kill Quelaag a dozen dozen times.
[19:14:16] <aria> Finally
[19:14:18] <aria> 34str
[19:14:38] <nine> Hurray!
[19:14:45] <nine> You actually got summoned at that level for Vagina?
[19:15:01] <nine> Dear lord, console plebs are worse than PC nublets.
[19:15:03] <aria> Hadn't killed it locally
[19:15:13] <nine> oh
[19:15:18] <nine> That works.
[19:15:22] <nine> 25k for that then.
[19:15:41] <aria> Not sure if I wanna use the dragon axe or greatsword...
[19:16:41] <aria> FUUU
[19:16:44] <aria> its too heavy
[19:17:54] <aria> I could use fap ring and havel...
[19:25:04] <GauntletWizard> Welp, time to switch to new antivirus software: http://gizmodo.com
[19:25:33] <spacejam> did people switch from reiserfs when he was wanted for murder
[19:27:29] <aria> Oh I forgot
[19:27:45] <aria> Lautrec killed Anastasia and left before I even saw him in this run
[19:27:49] <aria> So I can't get the fap ring =P
[19:28:11] <ProfPangloss|Work> "I really like antivirus software, but I also like to support murderers addicted to bath salts... anybody have any suggestions"
[19:50:05] <nine> Deal with a slower roll, aria.
[19:50:16] <nine> Or are you already fatrolling before the weapon?
[19:50:37] <apreche> people switched from reiserfs because when it stopped being developed the other file systems became better.
[19:50:48] <apreche> and it wasn't even the best in all cases when it was being actively developed.
[19:51:23] <aria> Nah, I never go above 25%
[19:51:24] <nine> apreche: you and Rym better be following JoJo's TV series.
[19:51:29] <aria> With this, Im 30%
[19:51:31] <aria> fap ring would fix it
[19:51:33] <nine> aria: MAN UP TIME!
[19:51:34] <aria> but cant get that
[19:51:34] <apreche> nine: it's on the list
[19:51:48] <nine> apreche: not on the list, actively follow it now.
[19:51:56] <nine> You guys never get to that list.
[19:52:21] <apreche> I'm only going to live for a few more decades here
[19:52:35] <Bronzdragon> Unless you aren't!
[19:52:54] <nine> That's optimistic with your life style.
[19:53:22] <spacejam> but won't the list grow faster than it gets gotten to?
[19:53:34] <spacejam> i'm not familiar with this list so i'm speculating
[19:53:37] <nine> The list contains Utena.
[19:53:48] <nine> They've been talking about doing a show on that since 2006.
[19:53:56] <nine> Or whatever year Geeknights started in.
[19:54:43] <nine> So by putting JoJo's on that list, they put it below Utena, or move Utena further down.
[19:54:48] <nine> Either way we're fucked.
[19:55:00] <aria> They haven't even done a show on Hokuto no Ken, what you expectin'?
[19:55:23] <nine> No shows.
[19:55:42] <nine> It's been a long ass time since I listened to a Geeknights episode. :|
[19:56:55] <nine> Content no longer as varied and interesting as before. Part of that is knowing their opinions better.
[20:00:07] <apreche> I have seen every Hokuto
[20:00:20] <apreche> but Rym doesn't know who demon Kaioh is
[20:00:45] <apreche> you would be surprised how far down the list we are
[20:00:48] <apreche> me and Rym just don't syncrhonize
[20:00:49] <nine> To be honest, it's a freaking miracle you guys even watched Madoka after a year.
[20:01:02] <apreche> he has watched all these live action shows I have not watched
[20:01:11] <nine> Synchronize or just kill the podcast list.
[20:01:12] <apreche> and other shit like Venture Bros., Adventure Time, Archer
[20:01:26] <apreche> meanwhile, I'm watching old ass movies
[20:01:44] <apreche> just watched The General with Buster Keaton
[20:01:44] <aria> Oh yeah
[20:01:54] <aria> I wouldn't have expected you to watch Madoka
[20:02:00] <aria> Or like it nearly as much as you did =P
[20:02:10] <apreche> why would not like?
[20:02:25] <nine> Lrn2english
[20:02:30] <apreche> One of my favorite things is when there is an anime with a "terrible secret of space"
[20:02:36] <nine> You like it to ridiculous overhyping levels.
[20:02:43] <aria> Sure would like. Not love like you did
[20:02:47] <aria> Yes
[20:03:04] <apreche> Dat episode 10, how could not?
[20:04:10] <creamsteak> nothing happens on mondays... ever...
[20:05:10] <ProfPangloss|Work> apreche: The General is fantastic, have you seen Modern Times?
[20:05:18] <apreche> I have seen Modern Times.
[20:05:27] <ProfPangloss|Work> Chaplin's finest work, IMHO
[20:06:02] <nine> The funniest part about the Madoka review, to me, was apreche normally raving about "IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN CITIZEN KANE YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT MOVIES." While he himself knows jack shit about anything SHAFT.
[20:06:39] <apreche> SHAFT is a bad mother.
[20:06:50] <creamsteak> Shut yo mouth?
[20:06:52] <nine> You're worse.
[20:06:56] <ProfPangloss|Work> If you like silent films, apreche, my uncle does screenings w. live piano accompaniment in/around NYC
[20:06:56] <creamsteak> that's as far as I've gotten.
[20:06:57] <apreche> just talkin' bout SHAFT
[20:06:57] <ProfPangloss|Work> http://www.silentfilmmusic.com
[20:07:07] <apreche> I know, I saw your post there
[20:07:25] <apreche> but I don't like it that much.
[20:07:29] <ProfPangloss|Work> Yeah, that's the Kickstarter, but he does performances routinely (usually on Sundays) in the area
[20:07:44] <ProfPangloss|Work> Your call, the live performance is what makes it.
[20:07:59] <apreche> I like almost all things to some extent, but one person does not have the time and energy to invest in all of them
[20:08:09] <apreche> unless you want to give me a zillion dollars so I don't have to work ever again.
[20:08:15] <ProfPangloss|Work> Fuck, that, king of all trades or bust
[20:08:22] <creamsteak> data acquisition commense!
[20:08:38] <apreche> I already have maximum trades.
[20:08:42] <apreche> I don't even have time for all my trades.
[20:08:49] <apreche> let alone room to add new ones.
[20:08:51] <nine> People don't actually watch silent films without music acompanying it, right?
[20:08:54] <okeefe> http://www.drunktiki.com
[20:09:03] <apreche> the unread comics, the unbuilt Gundams
[20:09:19] <ProfPangloss|Work> nine: Usually if you watch online or buy media, there's a full orchestral score that's been tailor-made for that film.
[20:09:33] <ProfPangloss|Work> The cool part about seeing it live is that it's often improvised, so no two performances are identical.
[20:09:36] <nine> apreche: you'll just find more stuff to fill your new-found time with if someone gave you all the money in the world.
[20:09:51] <nine> You'd still say you don't have enough lifetime.
[20:09:56] <apreche> nine: but I would have time to do them.
[20:10:02] <apreche> the comics would be read, the steam games would be played
[20:10:13] <nine> ProfPangloss|Work: That's what I thought, recording just have audio tracks.
[20:10:23] <nine> apreche: you would still say you wouldn't have the time.
[20:10:59] <nine> You would just play CS, NS(2), read some comics and find a bunch of other stuff to distract yourself with.
[20:13:16] <Apsup> I play little videogames and you people get active here. Without me. :[
[20:13:33] <nine> We don't.
[20:13:43] <aria> Just dark Souls talk, don't worry
[20:13:51] <aria> I need a billion more levels to fast roll...
[20:14:09] <Bronzdragon> 25, in fact
[20:14:13] <nine> Just mourning the fact that it will take another few years before we get a final thoughts episode on something again.
[20:14:20] <Bronzdragon> Apsup, buy Darksouls for xbox
[20:14:23] <nine> aria: Hush.
[20:14:26] <nine> Just midroll you pussy.
[20:14:26] <Bronzdragon> I'll co-op through the entire game with you
[20:14:38] <nine> Apsup has it for Xbawks.
[20:14:45] <nine> You buy it for PC and I will co-op with you.
[20:15:05] <aria> We don't want your cheatin'
[20:15:16] <aria> I sword weights 24
[20:15:28] <aria> My clothes weigh 10
[20:15:39] <Apsup> I have Dark Souls on xbox?
[20:15:55] <Apsup> *!
[20:15:56] <nine> You don't?
[20:16:01] <Apsup> I do.
[20:16:10] <nine> Yeah, I saw the correction.
[20:16:11] <Apsup> Mis puncuated that sentence.
[20:16:18] <nine> They aren't even next to each other!
[20:16:24] <Apsup> Brainfart.
[20:16:30] <nine> We know your dick goes from A to Z, but come on. ! and ? are nowhere near each other.
[20:16:54] <nine> Also, Apsup. Opinion on this set: http://steamcommunity.com
[20:19:17] <apreche> Conrad was all listening to Macross Plus OST, so now I am listening to Macross original OST.
[20:19:18] <Apsup> Hat looks like it belongs to a courtfool rather than empress, but otherwise it looks pretty nice.
[20:19:22] <apreche> aw yeah
[20:19:39] <nine> It's styled like Padme's hairdress.
[20:19:50] <nine> Or was it padme?
[20:19:54] <nine> I suck at names.
[20:20:38] <ProfPangloss|Work> I really, REALLY want these guys to get some business and start making more
[20:20:39] <ProfPangloss|Work> http://www.thepixelsmithy.com
[20:22:11] <nine> Apsup: I initially only saw the swords, the armour looks pretty awesome too.
[20:22:18] <nine> While still keeping her tits bare.
[20:23:17] <aria> I need fap ring and 9 levels to fast roll
[20:23:17] <apreche> Pan flute playing outside, sooo loud
[20:23:23] <apreche> just like South Park
[20:23:27] <aria> Shouldn't have wasted all those levels in vit!
[20:23:30] <nine> Enjoy it.
[20:23:34] <nine> OR END!
[20:23:38] <nine> Bakaria.
[20:23:45] <aria> I need MORE end!
[20:23:48] <aria> I need 9 more end!
[20:24:59] <nine> No you don't.
[20:25:00] <Apsup> I think I've told about END, but does anyone listen. Nooo... I don't need END I use my faggot sinner flip ring.
[20:25:01] <nine> DEAL WITH IT.
[20:25:08] <nine> Learn to dodge at midroll.
[20:25:17] <nine> And as a result you will become better when fast rolling.
[20:25:27] <aria> I don't need the quick roll. I need the quick run
[20:25:33] <nine> Apsup you stupid sinner.
[20:25:38] <nine> Now I must kill you.
[20:25:48] <aria> If flip ring was still OP, I'd be fliprinning it up thios bitch
[20:25:49] <nine> You don't.
[20:25:51] <nine> Deal with it.
[20:26:00] <nine> It's still OP.
[20:26:11] <nine> Fuck flipping to lava and no damage.
[20:26:23] <aria> Nah, it's totally balanced now. You get 4 more iframes, not a bit deal
[20:26:31] <aria> You can't actually do that ykno
[20:26:44] <nine> Except you can.
[20:27:05] <nine> Flipping through lava results in less damage taken over same distance.
[20:27:45] <nine> You can flipflop through lava and get farther than rolling or just running.
[20:28:12] <aria> Thats not the same as not taking damage
[20:28:18] <aria> you still die before you get 10% of the wya to the other side
[20:28:24] <Apsup> Flip ring is for dirty evil sinners. I think I should make a poster of somekind. "Flip ring = Sin. [relevant image] Not even once."
[20:28:51] <Bronzdragon> ... it got nerfec pretty hard
[20:28:56] <Bronzdragon> *nerfed
[20:29:16] * nine pats Apsup.
[20:29:33] <nine> Bronzdragon: it got nerfed pretty hard if you're a fucking console plebeian.
[20:29:41] <nine> It was beyond ridiculously broken.
[20:29:49] <nine> So yeah, relatively it's nerfed hard.
[20:29:56] <nine> Still doesn't change the fact that it's still very fucking good.
[20:30:19] <nine> Extra iframes and less recovery frames is very powerful.
[20:30:31] <nine> It makes it a ton easier to dodge.
[20:30:58] -!- spacejam has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~]
[20:31:28] <nine> It was utterly batshit insane that you could have a dodge better than average fastroll (at the limit) while still being decked out in crazy armour.
[20:33:18] <aria> Psj
[20:33:21] <aria> you give up an slot
[20:33:35] <aria> its perfectly fair. if you wanna dodge and can do with only 1 ring, then use ninja ring
[20:33:49] <aria> Also some dude parried me
[20:33:50] <aria> I thought I was dead
[20:33:58] <nine> Give up only 1 slot yes.
[20:34:07] <aria> He was super non-cheap and we faught proper
[20:34:08] <nine> Where otherwise you'd need more than 2 to get something similar.
[20:34:15] <aria> then I lost cause I was predictable and got parried
[20:34:21] <aria> His repose did fucking 1 damage
[20:34:31] <aria> And then I killed him in 1 swing. I feel super shitty about that..
[20:34:59] <aria> Oh
[20:35:05] <aria> he told me just now he didn't two hand the weapon
[20:35:09] <aria> so he couldn't use use...
[20:35:12] <aria> I don't feel bad anymore
[20:35:21] <nine> use use?
[20:35:33] <nine> What weapon did he use for the riposte?
[20:35:33] <aria> use it anymore
[20:36:20] <aria> regular greatsword
[20:36:32] <nine> Yeah, that thing has no crit bonus.
[20:36:42] <nine> So obviously it deals pisspoor damage when he can't even one-hand it.
[20:37:05] <nine> You shouldn't parry-riposte with a weapon you can't one-hand.
[20:37:23] <nine> Greatsword is great though.
[20:37:27] <aria> Why not? You can just two hand when you riposte
[20:37:33] <aria> and then it does full damage
[20:37:35] <nine> Just don't bother backstabbing or riposting.
[20:37:37] <nine> Just swing it.
[20:37:59] <nine> Full damage yeah.
[20:38:08] <nine> When there's nothing behind it.
[20:38:13] <nine> No strength means no damage.
[20:38:26] <nine> It also has no crit bonus, so it wouldn't kill you either way.
[20:38:34] <aria> Yeah it would =P
[20:38:36] <aria> Easily
[20:38:55] <nine> Uh, no.
[20:39:25] <nine> You have too much vit.
[20:39:38] <nine> It wouldn't hardly kill you.
[20:39:46] <nine> would*
[20:39:57] <aria> I am naked
[20:40:01] <nine> ...
[20:40:05] <nine> Why the fuck are you naked?
[20:40:15] <nine> Put on some fucking pants you dirty sinner.
[20:41:15] <Bronzdragon> He has rags!
[20:41:25] <aria> Any armor, even just gloves means mid roll
[20:41:28] <aria> and I aint having none of that
[20:41:40] <nine> Put on holy trousers.
[20:41:43] <nine> Do it you scrub.
[20:41:52] <aria> Too heavy
[20:41:55] <nine> DO IT.
[20:41:59] <nine> Man the fuck up.
[20:42:11] <aria> When you don't cheat, your running speed matters a lot
[20:42:16] <aria> Cause you need to move around to get shit a bunch
[20:42:42] <nine> Are you implying what I think you're implying?
[20:43:10] <nine> If you can't deal with midroll running speed you're a pussy.
[20:43:39] <nine> Also, I still doubt you'd die from that greatsword riposte.
[20:43:59] <nine> You have too much vit.
[20:44:08] <nine> And greatsword is crap for riposting.
[20:45:08] <aria> I have 700hp. I wouldn't survive a normal swing..
[20:45:32] <nine> Wut?
[20:45:44] <nine> You put points in Vit you said, or different character suddenly?
[20:45:51] <aria> 20 vit
[20:45:51] <aria> Yes
[20:46:43] <nine> So 800 hp.
[20:46:59] <aria> oh yeah sorry
[20:47:11] <aria> its 7**, so I assumed 700 cause I was mid-fight
[20:47:26] <nine> Plus your high level means you have defenses if naked.
[20:47:40] <aria> Barely =P
[20:48:17] <nine> Put on some pants.
[20:48:25] <nine> Use a lighter weapon.
[20:48:40] <nine> Your lack of balls means you shouldn't be allowed to use that weapon.
[20:48:59] <aria> Lack of balls for being naked in Pvp?
[20:49:34] <nine> No, for not having the guts to midroll.
[20:50:32] <aria> I don't think it takes guts to mid roll =P
[20:50:40] <nine> If you honestly didn't mind midrolling, you would've just put on armour when the dude invaded.
[20:50:48] <creamsteak> I still can't decide if I want to play planetside 2 or not... I'm still in love with the "idea" of the game, the same as I've always been... tribes as well... but why for game not live up to my impossible expectations!
[20:51:29] <nine> Have you tried PS2?
[20:51:40] <apreche> Just play NS2 and CS:GO
[20:51:48] <nine> If you want to have no fun.
[20:52:02] <apreche> who cares if other games fail to live up to the potential of their concepts.
[20:52:10] <apreche> just ignore them and play games that exist now and do not fail.
[20:52:11] <nine> PS2 and Tribs;Abscond are better than NS2 and CS:GO.
[20:52:23] <apreche> for pay2win babies maybe
[20:52:39] <nine> Hardly.
[20:52:49] <nine> CS fails for being CS.
[20:53:08] <ProfPangloss|Work> Goddammit
[20:53:19] <ProfPangloss|Work> The problem with doing tech support for deaf people, in a nutshell
[20:53:29] <apreche> CS is just the most successful fps ever with thousand sof simultaneous players over 12 years
[20:53:37] <nine> So?
[20:53:44] <ProfPangloss|Work> I have no idea if, when they look utterly confused, they don't understand my ASL, or if they don't understand the tech concepts I'm trying to explain.
[20:53:51] <apreche> Planetside, teh dead
[20:53:55] <apreche> Planetside 2, will be teh dead soon enough
[20:54:05] <apreche> Tribes: Ascend, is anyone still playing?
[20:54:26] <apreche> if these games were so great they would be able to retain players.
[20:54:45] <nine> That was never said.
[20:54:51] <ProfPangloss|Work> I think you're missing the Valve factor
[20:54:54] <nine> Also, cancer is so great.
[20:54:57] <apreche> it was, I just said it now
[20:55:06] <nine> So many people have cancer, or HIV if you want.
[20:55:10] <nine> Totally great disease that is.
[20:55:25] <ProfPangloss|Work> Valve and Steam are synonymous with PC gaming, which is a huge factor in CS's popularity - PC gamers are, by and large, exposed to it, quality of the game aside.
[20:55:30] <creamsteak> Unlike the both of you, I can play both kinds of games. And Planetside 2 is more like what I want the game to be than counter-strike, but fuck if they are not shitting all over it.
[20:55:31] <apreche> it is much better at being a disease than other diseases
[20:55:39] <nine> It was never said that PS2 are "so great".
[20:55:45] <nine> You're the only one saying that.
[20:55:59] <nine> While fanboying as crazy and usual over your CS.
[20:56:06] <nine> Which is a boring game.
[20:56:28] <Apsup> Scott, if you talk about CS and NS2 everytime someone talks about playing some other fps you are like person who suggests Mega Man 2 to a person thinkin about playing Little Nemo. Or Burnig Wheel to someone playing D&D.
[20:56:40] <nine> The moment a game requires you to do more than click on heads you declare it shit, apreche.
[20:56:41] <apreche> so boring that 100,000 people are playing it right now
[20:56:47] <apreche> guess those people love being bored
[20:56:54] <creamsteak> oh my god this conversation
[20:56:54] <nine> Probably.
[20:57:33] <creamsteak> counter strike won't ever give me two armies of over a hundred people with jet packs, aircraft, and tanks storming bases
[20:57:37] <creamsteak> so there's that
[20:57:58] <nine> Eeeyup.
[20:58:05] <nine> It's two tiny teams who just click on each other's head.
[20:58:09] <apreche> but any game so far that has done that has been shit at being a game, and is just fan-service
[20:58:23] <apreche> you are liking the skin, ignoring the underlying game mechanism.
[20:58:36] <creamsteak> are you addressing me or nine with that?
[20:58:38] <nine> Except that Planetside was popular.
[20:58:46] <apreche> how popular?
[20:58:53] <nine> Iunno.
[20:59:01] <apreche> so popular that they had to put ads all over it
[20:59:05] <apreche> so popular they shut it down
[20:59:12] <creamsteak> is it popular enough that I can play it at any given time and get into a fight? Good enough. :P
[20:59:12] <apreche> and the only time I played it, it was a ghost town
[20:59:47] <nine> CS would be dead too if people couldn't make their own servers.
[20:59:58] <apreche> that is part of what makes CS great
[21:00:16] <nine> Operation costs are significant when not spread.
[21:00:17] <creamsteak> CS is a good game, for when you want to play CS.
[21:00:17] <apreche> but there are a lot of other games where people can make their own servers, but the games are still dead
[21:00:30] <apreche> or they have only one tiny server with almos tno players left
[21:00:38] <Apsup> Scott for fucks sake, I've said it million times before and I'll say it million times after but "underlying game mechanisms" is not only worthwhile element in games. There are other reasons why people enjoy games and those reasons are worthy on their own.
[21:00:52] <apreche> but then you are not enjoying the game
[21:01:08] <nine> Apsup: you do realize apreche called mechanics "skin" earlier.
[21:01:10] <apreche> if I take Monopoly and put a badass skin on it, but the game is still Monopoly
[21:01:16] <apreche> it still sucks
[21:01:33] <nine> You mean "It's still monopoly".
[21:01:39] <apreche> I'm not going to get excited if someone makes MLP:FiM-opoly just because I like MLP:FiM
[21:01:42] <nine> Opinions stay opinions.
[21:01:47] <nine> Yeah you will.
[21:01:58] <nine> You will go gaga over the figures.
[21:02:02] <apreche> ah, no
[21:02:03] <Apsup> What if I enjoy Monoply more because it has cool skin? What if it really excites me to play monoply where I buy planets and put people in slavery? What if that really gets me hard? What then?
[21:02:09] <Bronzdragon> *MLP:FiMonoploy
[21:02:22] <apreche> Then you are enjoying the skin of monopoly, and not the game of monopoly
[21:02:24] <apreche> you are enjoying artwork
[21:02:26] <apreche> or story
[21:02:28] <apreche> and not enjoying game
[21:03:15] <apreche> that is why I watch JRPG cut-scenes on YouTube
[21:03:55] <nine> apreche: do tell me how you can call large player populations fighting each other with a full army in equipment "skin".
[21:04:01] <creamsteak> Planetside isn't really an orthogame at all... there's no victory condition or anything, no goal or incentive other than climbing the gear tree and skill tree at the moment. On this you are right. But that's still besides the point... :(
[21:04:05] <nine> When it's mechanics through and through.
[21:04:28] <apreche> that is mechanics, but is it good mechanics?
[21:04:41] <nine> That's not my question.
[21:04:42] <creamsteak> define good mechanics
[21:04:50] <nine> Tell me how you can call it skin.
[21:04:51] <nine> Because you did.
[21:05:34] <creamsteak> there are individual atoms of game play in planetside that are good games at times admittedly
[21:06:09] <apreche> because the fundamental test of skill at the core of the game is no different
[21:06:13] <apreche> for example
[21:06:17] <apreche> we could play rock paper scissors
[21:06:19] <apreche> or we could play
[21:06:22] <apreche> Stratego
[21:06:23] <nine> The fundamental test of skill is the same as CS.
[21:06:28] <nine> Hit the enemy.
[21:06:30] <nine> To kill them.
[21:06:37] <apreche> is Stratego different than rock paper scissors?
[21:06:39] <apreche> only in the skin
[21:06:39] <nine> So tell me how you can call that a skin.
[21:06:44] <apreche> even though so many things are mechanically different
[21:06:49] <apreche> at its core, it is just rock paper scissors
[21:07:05] <creamsteak> oy
[21:07:09] <ProfPangloss|Work> At its core, CS is a fast-paced point and click adventure where the environment moves.
[21:07:11] <nine> So it's a skin when a non-CS game does the mechanic.
[21:07:15] <nine> But not when it's a CS game.
[21:07:15] <nine> Kk.
[21:07:28] <Apsup> rock paper scissors can be fun. In an rpg con where I go they used to have bouncy castle and there they helf rps tournament, and while it was before my time there I've heard that those were pretty awesome.
[21:07:29] <apreche> no, it's a baby game when it is pay 2 win
[21:07:38] <creamsteak> apreche/nine arguments are land wars in china with a different skin
[21:07:54] <apreche> here is your people's fundamental problem
[21:07:57] <creamsteak> "baby game"
[21:08:00] <apreche> you judge a game as good or bad based on how fun it is
[21:08:10] <creamsteak> straw man
[21:08:12] <apreche> FUN is NOT what makes a game good or bad
[21:08:14] <nine> And he makes assumptions about people's judgement again.
[21:08:19] <apreche> WoW is fun as hell
[21:08:22] <nine> Never did I say "good".
[21:08:23] <apreche> DotA is fun as hell
[21:08:23] <creamsteak> oy
[21:08:25] <aria> You people are crazy
[21:08:26] <apreche> they suck balls
[21:08:28] <aria> WoW is not fun
[21:08:31] <creamsteak> oy
[21:08:40] <aria> and whats important in a game is how much I enjoy it, not how fair it is
[21:08:44] <nine> <~apreche> DotA is fun as hell
[21:08:48] <aria> Smash is excellent
[21:08:50] <nine> I just got outhurped.
[21:08:50] <nine> Wow.
[21:08:51] <aria> Not sure about fair
[21:08:58] <creamsteak> lol
[21:08:59] <apreche> but what makes a game good
[21:09:06] <nine> Is not what you say.
[21:09:09] <apreche> has nothing to do with subjective feelings that people have while playing them.
[21:09:19] <apreche> Go is probably the best game ever, not fun at all
[21:09:19] <nine> Yet you do that the entire time.
[21:09:21] <aria> Its what makes a desireable game
[21:09:29] <nine> OPINION
[21:09:39] <aria> apreche: Where you here when I was talking about my Go experiences?
[21:09:39] <apreche> the not fun part is opinion
[21:09:43] <apreche> the best game ever part is not opinion
[21:09:46] <aria> I won. I won every round I played
[21:09:49] <aria> It was my first time playing
[21:09:52] <aria> I was using a controller
[21:09:54] <apreche> were you playing against good players?
[21:09:59] <aria> I should not fucking win the first time I play
[21:10:03] <aria> No...
[21:10:09] <nine> <~apreche> the best game ever part is not opinion
[21:10:14] <apreche> wait, I think you confused CS:GO for Go
[21:10:14] <nine> The "not fun at all" part is.
[21:10:17] <apreche> I was talking about the ancient game of Go
[21:10:19] <apreche> right then
[21:10:25] <aria> CS:Go =P
[21:10:31] <apreche> GO != Go
[21:10:34] <creamsteak> apreche, I understand your argument well enough, and it's so far outside what I wanted to discuss at this juncture: but let me share simply that I think you're view is "almost" right but far too simplistic and not addressing the complexity of examining games as systems and subsystems of games and such...
[21:10:58] <apreche> Games are indeed are complex with systems within systems
[21:11:00] <aria> The last time I played CS before when I tried CS:GO a few days ago was many years ago
[21:11:13] <nine> creamsteak: you forgot the part where apreche's fanboying so fucking hard he calls the same mechanics in his CS "skin" in another game.
[21:11:31] <nine> Then rampages off throwing out assumptions about people's judgement when none claimed was made.
[21:11:34] <apreche> but when you really examine most games closely, you can see how many of those systems actually don't matter.
[21:11:36] <creamsteak> nine: dude... bro... that's the part of the conversation I have no fucks to give for on either side
[21:11:56] <apreche> Like in CS:GO
[21:12:00] <apreche> the economy barely matters
[21:12:10] <GauntletWizard> apreche: You make the most interesting arguements
[21:12:11] <Apsup> Go tell that to the pro players.
[21:12:17] <apreche> because if you can click on heads, doesn't matter if you have a deagle or an AK
[21:12:42] <GauntletWizard> also, https://www.youtube.com
[21:13:07] <Apsup> Again, go tell that to the pro teams. Tell them that winning or losing pistol round doesn't matter, it's all just head clicking.
[21:13:34] <nine> apreche: is testing your favoured skill of clicking heads without hitscan bad?
[21:14:00] <apreche> i don't even know what hitscan is
[21:14:10] <Apsup> ...
[21:14:10] <nine> Insta-hit.
[21:14:12] <Apsup> ...
[21:14:12] <Apsup> ...
[21:14:14] <Apsup> ...
[21:14:16] <Apsup> ...
[21:14:18] <Apsup> wut
[21:14:21] <nine> And Apsup, stop spamming.
[21:14:26] <GauntletWizard> Oh, man
[21:14:26] <nine> I wanted to put one in between that.
[21:14:36] <GauntletWizard> Hitscan vs projectile is super important in FPS design
[21:14:43] <Apsup> Well you already broke my co-co-combo.
[21:14:49] <GauntletWizard> HItscan == Checks for target when you press the button
[21:14:58] <nine> And mr. CS IS ONLY GAME WORTH PLAYING doesn't know about it.
[21:15:14] <GauntletWizard> Projectile == An object leaves the gun, and then over the next few frames checks for collision
[21:15:38] <GauntletWizard> so, yes - instahit vs takes a few frames to travel
[21:15:51] <apreche> doesn't make a difference
[21:15:56] <nine> No wonder apreche doesn't like Tribs;Abscond, ignoring pay2win stuff, he just can't handle not having hitscan.
[21:15:59] <GauntletWizard> Makes a huge difference
[21:16:09] <ProfPangloss|Work> ^
[21:16:13] <apreche> making it take a few frames to travel just increases difficulty, fundamentally tests the same skill
[21:16:20] <apreche> just complicates the direcitonal heuristic
[21:16:24] <apreche> one way or the other
[21:16:28] <nine> Yes, fundamentally tests the same skill.
[21:16:29] <Apsup> Compare assault rifle in NS2 and rocket launcher in quake and tell me there is no difference.
[21:16:34] <nine> But is harder.
[21:16:35] <GauntletWizard> I am like 100% better at TF2 once I realized that despite the particles, the heavy's weapon is hitscan
[21:16:35] <ProfPangloss|Work> When different weapons and projectiles have different velocities, it makes a huge difference
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[21:16:41] <Apsup> Taking lead is totally different subskill in aiming.
[21:16:44] <nine> And more rewarding as a result.
[21:16:51] <GauntletWizard> because I stopped trying to lead targets
[21:16:56] <GauntletWizard> which was fucking me up
[21:17:01] <creamsteak> what have I done! NOES!
[21:17:08] <nine> GauntletWizard: Wut.
[21:17:18] <nine> So that's why I get mowed down in TF2 by heavies, but suck myself.
[21:17:20] <GauntletWizard> nine: It's true - The minigun is hitscan
[21:17:25] <GauntletWizard> not projectile
[21:17:46] <nine> I'm not too surprised, I'm shit either way with the minigun.
[21:17:47] <GauntletWizard> http://tf2wiki.net
[21:18:05] <apreche> a small detail like that doesn't fundamentally change the game.
[21:18:07] <nine> Arrows and needles are the only projectile weapons.
[21:18:15] <nine> No, but it makes it more challenging.
[21:18:39] <GauntletWizard> It makes a huge difference in the skill level
[21:18:44] <nine> Yup.
[21:18:50] <GauntletWizard> You complain about the low skill cap of tf2, and that's part of it
[21:18:54] <Apsup> Yes it does. Need to lead and different lead in different weapons matter a lot.
[21:18:59] <nine> But apreche wouldn't know because he only plays corridor FPS's.
[21:19:07] <apreche> there is a difference between difficulty and skill cap
[21:19:29] <apreche> TF2 has a low skill cap, meaning that at some point you are as good as you can be, and you can't be better
[21:19:35] <GauntletWizard> nobody's arguing there's not
[21:19:35] <apreche> and that point is achievable
[21:19:44] <Apsup> There is skill cap in every game.
[21:19:47] <apreche> In CS that point is insanely high, if achievable at all
[21:19:55] <ProfPangloss|Work> Is that objectively good, though?
[21:19:56] <nine> No.
[21:20:13] <apreche> changing a particular directional heuristic doesn't necessarily raise or lower the skill cap.
[21:20:26] <ProfPangloss|Work> I'd argue that makes it an objectively better trait for major tournament/competitive play
[21:20:40] <ProfPangloss|Work> But as a casual game to play, some would argue it's a negative, as it makes the game less accessible
[21:20:54] <nine> Calling it now, apreche will go on a rant on the podcast where he can't be instantly proven wrong about this subject.
[21:20:56] <aria> Are you arguging that CS has the heighest skillcap?
[21:21:10] <nine> aria: no.
[21:21:10] <apreche> i don't know if it has the highest
[21:21:17] <apreche> actually it definitely doesn't
[21:21:17] <nine> Just that it's insanely high in his opinion.
[21:21:19] <aria> Its just one skill. Surely a game with multiple skills has a higher skillcap
[21:21:23] <ProfPangloss|Work> Quake somethingsomething is pretty high
[21:21:24] <apreche> since Quake is way higher
[21:21:28] <apreche> and other things are even higher
[21:22:12] <ProfPangloss|Work> You know what else has an objectively higher skill cap, video game development.
[21:22:15] <creamsteak> wait so there's no leading the target in tf2? And wouldn't rockets also be projectile?
[21:22:20] <ProfPangloss|Work> Nobody's made the perfect game, because people still play other games.
[21:22:22] <aria> Do you do Fox Only final destination, apreche =P?
[21:22:28] <ProfPangloss|Work> But of course that's just a skin for typing tutor.
[21:22:41] <apreche> aria: I don't play it at all.
[21:22:49] <nine> I wonder how much harder Quake would be if you took out the hitscan weapons, bouncing projectiles and splash projectiles.
[21:23:17] <apreche> making it harder to hit doesn't raise the skill cap, it raises the skill floor.
[21:23:27] <apreche> it makes it harder to get a kill at all
[21:23:29] <apreche> to raise the skill cap
[21:23:31] <creamsteak> does CS do this hitscan thing with the majority of weapons, or projectile?
[21:23:39] <apreche> you need to make it possible to be even better
[21:24:02] <Apsup> CS is hitscan.
[21:24:05] * creamsteak goes back to tribes 2 as the one true game...
[21:24:08] <nine> CS is hitscan.
[21:24:11] <nine> Full on.
[21:24:11] <creamsteak> fuck you people and your magic bullets
[21:24:13] <apreche> at some point yuo are aiming perfectly and hitting with every shot with every weapon, hitscan or not, now how can you get beter?
[21:24:28] <apreche> you can get better because the primary diff between CS and TF2
[21:24:29] <apreche> is speed
[21:24:29] <creamsteak> minus the laser rifle
[21:24:33] <Apsup> Manuver, team play, strategy, tactics.
[21:24:38] <nine> You can't aim perfectly with projectile weaponry.
[21:24:44] <apreche> to be truly perfect you need a reaction time faster than is humanly possible
[21:24:50] <apreche> and you can always work to get a little bit faster
[21:24:52] <apreche> and it will help you
[21:24:53] <nine> Because you control even less variables than hitscan.
[21:24:54] <Apsup> Perfect aims means jack shit when enemy is behind you.
[21:25:10] <creamsteak> at some range with a projectile I can dodge any single bullet you fire
[21:25:16] <apreche> exactly, which is why a reaction time and ability to turn around so fast can still make you even better.
[21:25:26] <nine> Also, CS is slow apreche.
[21:25:30] <apreche> it is slow
[21:25:31] <Apsup> FPSes are not only about aiming! There are other skills too. They are also important. Also usually more interesting.
[21:25:34] <apreche> relative to some
[21:25:35] <nine> Sure, TF2 is slower. But CS is also slow.
[21:25:37] <apreche> but is still faster than TF2
[21:25:51] <nine> Because TF2 is slower than a snail, and CS is a snail.
[21:25:54] <apreche> it is slow overall, but is the fastest game that lots of people actually play
[21:25:59] * creamsteak is very upset now that I know there's no target leading in so many games...
[21:26:07] <apreche> and is fast enough to get the skill cap way up there.
[21:26:13] <apreche> it doesn't take much, since humans have slow reaction times.
[21:26:18] <nine> Tribes 2 is also slow as fuck.
[21:26:24] <nine> Abscond's also slow.
[21:26:29] <apreche> tribes 2 is slow and also not slow
[21:26:49] <nine> CS is nowhere near fast enough to raise the skill cap significantly were it not for the fact that it's mostly corridor shooting.
[21:26:51] <apreche> people who are really good can go crazy fast in Tribes 2, they take that flag and you don't even see them
[21:27:11] <nine> apreche: movement speed is not the same thing.
[21:27:24] <aria> T2 is not slow
[21:27:26] <creamsteak> wait what are we talking about as slow then?
[21:27:30] <aria> You're just bad at being fast in games Nine
[21:27:35] <aria> T2 is crazy fast if you do it right
[21:27:50] <ProfPangloss|Work> FAST
[21:27:50] <ProfPangloss|Work> http://www.youtube.com
[21:28:02] <creamsteak> projectiles in tribes 2 are relatively slow, considering you can physically out-run some of them at times
[21:28:05] <nine> aria, using which hax? :3
[21:28:18] <apreche> that's not that fast
[21:28:36] <creamsteak> you guys are all ruining my day
[21:28:37] <nine> AHAHAHA, Prof. <3
[21:28:57] <nine> apreche: did you get the video at all?
[21:29:09] <apreche> this is fast
[21:29:10] <apreche> http://www.youtube.com
[21:30:19] <nine> apreche: do you realize they purposefully didn't put in any moments where they had any speed worth mentioning?
[21:30:25] <nine> Most of that video is him standing STILL.
[21:30:28] <aria> Tribes F2P is baby tribes. Don't play that
[21:30:32] <creamsteak> yeah that's pretty quick
[21:30:34] <nine> Broteam one.
[21:30:43] <apreche> yeah, I clicked around and found a part where he moved
[21:31:05] <apreche> my only problem with Tribes: Ascend is that it is pay 2 win
[21:31:06] <nine> Also, you linked a speedrun.
[21:31:16] <nine> The shooting is slow still.
[21:31:17] <apreche> it is a speedrum
[21:31:41] <apreche> but that is how fast the game was in multiplayer back in the day
[21:31:44] <nine> Did I not already say movement speed is not the same?
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[21:31:56] <creamsteak> that's what I'm still curious about
[21:32:10] <apreche> what other speed is there besides movement speed?
[21:32:21] <creamsteak> what are we talking about here if not weapons, projectile speed, rate of deaths/hits/kills, movements speed?
[21:32:49] <nine> Projectile speed is non-existant with hitscan games.
[21:33:04] <aria> apreche: People playing now are better than they were back when it was popular
[21:33:06] <creamsteak> sure, tribes is not a "hitscan" game except the lasrifle (in the first two tribes)
[21:33:13] <aria> Intead of complaining its dead, just play it
[21:33:23] <aria> Community is a billion times better than NS's too
[21:33:37] <apreche> what community?
[21:33:43] <Bronzdragon> Y'know what'd be fun?
[21:33:47] <Bronzdragon> Playing CS:GO
[21:33:50] <Bronzdragon> Right now
[21:33:57] <creamsteak> <~apreche> it is a speedrum
[21:33:58] <apreche> also NS2 community not so good because all these nubs just showed up
[21:33:59] <creamsteak> speedrum!
[21:34:00] <Bronzdragon> I'd be up for some of that, if you don't mind European style lag
[21:34:02] <apreche> and they just complain about balance
[21:34:22] <apreche> speedrum is needed for speedpirates
[21:34:52] <creamsteak> is this like meth-rum?
[21:35:07] <creamsteak> nine what are you referring to for speed?
[21:35:09] <creamsteak> I'm still confused
[21:35:13] <Bronzdragon> =(
[21:35:18] <Bronzdragon> No CSGO then
[21:35:43] <aria> Yknow what is a good game? Dark Souls. Someone invade me
[21:36:03] <Apsup> No gold. Also I don't invade.
[21:36:15] <aria> I could invade you..
[21:36:17] <aria> You should get gold
[21:36:53] <Apsup> After I find some good offer, like two months 2e or three with 5. I have never paid full price of gold and I won't start now.
[21:38:51] <creamsteak> I'm even willing to tolerate a little pay to win (League of Legends level)
[21:39:27] <Apsup> I'm willing to tolerate Dota 2 level.
[21:39:32] <creamsteak> I don't feel at any major disadvantage because I don't have the character of the week
[21:39:40] <apreche> I would be fine with pay 2 win, if the game also had a non-pay2win mode
[21:39:42] <apreche> for example
[21:39:53] <apreche> Tribes:Ascend, pay one flat fee, get everything
[21:40:02] <apreche> and play on special competetive servers where everyone has everything
[21:40:05] <creamsteak> apreche: I'm with you on that for tribes and such
[21:40:13] <creamsteak> aye
[21:40:17] <nine> You can play on private servers in Abscond.
[21:40:26] <apreche> what is abscond?
[21:40:34] <creamsteak> when I first saw planetside had an "all access" mode that's what I thought it was... till I found out it's just SoE's all access thing
[21:40:34] <nine> Or at least, they were working on supporting that stuff when I played the beta.
[21:40:40] <nine> Tribs;Abscond.
[21:40:50] <apreche> oh, like Money:The Wasting
[21:41:08] <creamsteak> nine: last I checked they had private servers but they were not actually "all access" to gear servers
[21:41:11] <Apsup> In pay to win I just look at the game differently than games like Dota and CS. When I play Tribes: A or PlanetSide 2 I'm not super competitivie trying to win. I try to do best on my abilities, but I don't take it that seriously as more competitive games.
[21:41:11] <nine> Except that I already used it before and you already forgot.
[21:41:22] <aria> Tribes f2p is pay to win? I just dont like it for the fact that its bad..
[21:41:38] <nine> creamsteak: did they? Ah well.
[21:42:42] <creamsteak> even money the wasting is pay to win, but the "cap" for high level pay is low enough that most people that play at that level can reach it
[21:42:46] <apreche> just had game idea
[21:42:52] <apreche> simliar to NS where it's RTS/FPS
[21:42:55] <apreche> but
[21:43:03] <apreche> gigantic map like Tribes
[21:43:09] <apreche> maybe make it just like the Starcraft maps
[21:43:23] <apreche> and make tech tree more like STarcraft
[21:43:28] <apreche> so you have to go over and spy on what the other team is building
[21:43:34] <apreche> and all that
[21:43:48] <nine> <~apreche> gigantic map like Tribes
[21:43:52] <nine> You call that gigantic?
[21:43:57] <nine> They're the size of NS maps.
[21:44:03] <spacejam> i'm trying to imagine walking across a starcraft map
[21:44:04] <nine> Just with less corridors.
[21:44:09] <creamsteak> that's sort of what I thought would come out of the starcraft 2 pay-for map editor but I never quite saw that game (though I imagined it more like a moba-type hybrid game)
[21:44:13] <apreche> Tribes 2 had gigantic open outdoor maps
[21:44:20] <nine> Uh.
[21:44:20] <aria> ...
[21:44:26] <aria> Nine have you ever played Tribes?
[21:44:29] <aria> Tribes maps are large
[21:44:31] <nine> If you count going out of bounds.
[21:44:34] <creamsteak> old tribes maps were fairly large...
[21:44:38] <apreche> some of the maps were smaller than others
[21:44:41] <aria> Probably the largest in any FPS Ive played
[21:44:42] <apreche> there was one that was just two towers
[21:44:45] <apreche> right next to each other
[21:44:50] <nine> They were fairly large yes.
[21:44:52] <apreche> but there were other ones that had main bases, sub-bases, and sub-sub bases
[21:44:55] <creamsteak> not counting catabatic or whatever and some of the other hyper-close ones (still big compared to what most fps gams have)
[21:44:55] <apreche> all over
[21:45:21] <nine> I must admit I couldn't play must T2 though, because no servers. So obviously it's a shit game.
[21:45:27] <Apsup> Wow, CS:GO hates me. Really, I hate Monastery map on Arms Race and what do I get three times in a row?
[21:45:42] <apreche> T2 was a good game
[21:45:45] <apreche> they changed it to a shit game
[21:45:48] <apreche> then the players left
[21:45:52] <apreche> then they changed it back, but it already died
[21:45:54] <nine> Also, apreche. You just described something close to Planetside 2.
[21:46:03] <nine> Though not complexity-wise.
[21:46:08] <nine> Because the tech trees are shit.
[21:46:11] <Apsup> Except no commander, nor techtrees.
[21:46:12] <nine> And individual.
[21:46:13] <apreche> Planetside 2 does not have RTS
[21:46:30] <apreche> and the biggest difference game-wise
[21:46:35] <nine> Uh, you can RTS it.
[21:46:41] <nine> You can't see realtime updates on the map, sure.
[21:46:46] <nine> But you can still order people around.
[21:46:48] <apreche> is that Planetside doesn't have atomic games you win/lose
[21:46:51] <apreche> that start with equal state
[21:46:53] <nine> No basebuilding, I'll give you that.
[21:47:40] <nine> And there is no server-side atomic games no.
[21:47:51] <nine> You can decide you won or lost yourself though.
[21:47:58] <apreche> I won then
[21:47:59] <apreche> all the games
[21:48:03] <apreche> i decided
[21:48:07] <nine> Since you can capture/defend single points on the map.
[21:48:15] <nine> Which in itself is a minor victory.
[21:48:18] <nine> But the war rages on.
[21:48:45] <apreche> It would be cool if they at least broke it down into individual fair battles
[21:48:52] <nine> apreche: don't act as if you haven't already decided that about everything in your life. ;)
[21:49:01] <apreche> i have lost many things
[21:49:08] <apreche> giot beat at LetterPress
[21:49:13] <nine> apreche: why would war be fair?
[21:49:16] <apreche> also lost Spot-It and battle Line
[21:49:17] <nine> It's war.
[21:49:34] <apreche> then that's a simulation, not a fair and competetive test of skill
[21:49:42] <nine> If you are losing, step up your game and/or call in reinforcements.
[21:49:48] <nine> Or fall back, regroup and retake.
[21:50:02] <apreche> not really interested in a simulation of war. War is not pleasant.
[21:50:06] <aria> Dust/Eve I believe is like NS marines vs marines on giant maps
[21:50:09] <nine> Ah, but the shooting is still a competitive test of skill between players.
[21:50:22] <Apsup> One thing I'd love to see in Planetside is to make the bases matter more. I just can't care too much about them when it's couple of meaningless points more or less, considering that I'm always full on meaningless points.
[21:50:22] <apreche> it takes skill to not crash in Flight Simulator
[21:50:24] <apreche> don't see me playing it
[21:50:47] <apreche> it takes skill to do a lot of things
[21:50:48] <nine> Apsup: I got a mail saying they've changed how that stuff works.
[21:50:56] <apreche> I'm only interested in testing skill, in a fair and competetive manner.
[21:50:56] <nine> And they added continent control back in.
[21:51:04] <nine> Where you get bonusses when you own a whole continent.
[21:51:12] <Apsup> nine: You read those things?
[21:51:20] <nine> Apsup: I skimmed it.
[21:51:28] <nine> There's 3 or 4 blurbs of text.
[21:51:39] <nine> I skim the Geeknights Newsletter, and that's fifty times the size.
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[21:51:55] <Apsup> apreche: Yes we know that you have only one way that games can give you pleasure. Thankfully rest of use are normal people.
[21:51:57] <nine> apreche: there's still competitive tests of skill between players.
[21:52:10] <nine> You either shoot and kill the guy, or get shot and get killed.
[21:52:16] <creamsteak> the continent bonuses seem pointless to me, vehicle/infantry/air points don't thrill me
[21:52:27] <nine> They're pointless, but it's a step.
[21:52:32] <creamsteak> hell the "leveling up" doesn't thrill me either
[21:52:41] <creamsteak> I was pretty happy to play spotter and shot-caller last night in a squad
[21:52:49] <apreche> aaaaaaaand I can almost leave work!
[21:52:50] <apreche> but it's dark
[21:52:58] <apreche> fuck you time that is not daylight savings
[21:52:59] <nine> Problem with the levelling in my experience is having to unlock a 3.4x scope to get a red dot sight.
[21:53:12] <creamsteak> heh
[21:53:18] <creamsteak> I found the "buy scopes" last night
[21:53:25] <creamsteak> and at first... happy... then suddenly megasad
[21:53:37] <creamsteak> because that's a LOT of fucking time just to get basic gear maxed out
[21:53:42] <creamsteak> and WHY?
[21:53:45] <nine> The game still needs so much development, and then they want to release it thsi month, right?
[21:53:50] <nine> :|
[21:53:53] <nine> Same happened with Abscond.
[21:53:54] <creamsteak> yep
[21:53:57] <nine> "TIME TO RELEASE!!!¡!"
[21:54:04] <creamsteak> sony wants to push it out the door not even halfway polished
[21:54:11] <creamsteak> they are doing major content changes nightly it feels like
[21:54:13] <nine> That's the biggest reason why Tribs failed.
[21:54:18] <nine> Rushed to 'release'.
[21:54:43] <nine> It's also stupid to release now because fucking holidays are right in front of the door.
[21:54:54] <creamsteak> the money-making scheme for it is so fucked as well, they are still actively fucking around with it
[21:55:10] <creamsteak> and they are planning the game like a forever MMO without the actual content to back it up...
[21:56:05] <nine> Forever MMO?
[21:56:41] <creamsteak> EQ model, as opposed to one with dilineated periods or endings
[21:57:05] <creamsteak> for ex: if every week was a "game" and one of the factions was declared a winner or something
[21:57:06] <nine> Wut?
[21:57:10] <creamsteak> that would be dilineated
[21:57:17] <nine> Oh yeah.
[21:57:25] <nine> But that's the concept behind the franchise.
[21:57:26] <nine> War doesn't end.
[21:57:42] <nine> You can make it very quiet by taking over a whole continent.
[21:57:44] <creamsteak> aye, but you could still provide atomic points or structures
[21:57:48] <nine> Making it hard for the enemy to fight there.
[21:58:03] <nine> Like every single region on the map?
[21:58:09] <nine> Or every continent?
[21:58:15] <nine> Those are quite atomic if you ask me.
[21:58:16] <creamsteak> no, I mean on the time framework
[21:58:26] <nine> But there's no reason to do that.
[21:58:45] <creamsteak> it's a persistent world, but at the same time it doesn't leverage any of the advantages of persistance
[21:58:53] <nine> "Hey, Bush? Yeah, Osama here. You won this week, good luck next though. We'll take that one."
[21:59:21] <creamsteak> what I'm referring to is that the games money-making scheme though
[21:59:40] <creamsteak> there's this notion that people will keep paying/playing forever for... some reason...
[21:59:52] <nine> ORLY?
[21:59:56] <nine> Then they're fucking idiots.
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[22:00:24] <nine> But I don't see how that matters anything with declaring or not declaring a winner for a certain period of time.
[22:00:38] <creamsteak> aye, that plus they want $7 for a gun (any gun) was quoted many times on the forums
[22:00:41] <creamsteak> lol
[22:01:03] <nine> Eh, you can get them without money.
[22:01:23] <creamsteak> nine: what I'm referring to is persistent state play in that department, the game basically has all the grind of wow without any of the smaller atomic rewards
[22:01:25] <nine> Heck, there is/was a bug that allowed you to get all the guns at a certain cert range if you had the exact number of certs.
[22:01:34] <creamsteak> have you played this week?
[22:01:40] <nine> No.
[22:01:48] <creamsteak> the cert prices on some weapons are up to 700+, and cert acquisition is down
[22:02:00] <nine> AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
[22:02:07] <nine> Moving towards the release prices.
[22:02:13] <creamsteak> in about 8 hours I had about 80 certs, maybe I was slow or medium speed
[22:03:03] <nine> Quite medium in my experience, though it depends on your FPS skill.
[22:03:11] <nine> You can rack up a lot of points if you're a good shooter.
[22:03:20] <nine> I'm not.
[22:03:43] <creamsteak> seemed like if I wanted to farm points in the big battles I should just play medic and keep rezzing the giant wall of snipers and anti-tank/air dudes that keep dying
[22:04:22] <creamsteak> 75 points every 10 seconds or so... so long as the battle keeps being a stagnant wall of dead dudes
[22:04:23] <Robobuntu> you can't every 10 seconds!
[22:04:27] <creamsteak> which only goes on so long
[22:04:55] <Apsup> Fuck you CS fuck you CS, it doesn't want me to play Arms Race apparently. "Finally baggage as level, well only got to play half round let's see what's next map... ar_monastery." Fuck this.
[22:05:07] <Apsup> creamsteak: That's what I do.
[22:05:17] <Apsup> Still too slow of exp gain.
[22:05:28] <creamsteak> I can't find motivation to farm points for points sake personally...
[22:05:47] <nine> creamsteak: Go to the crown.
[22:05:48] <creamsteak> most fun for me was jumping in behind an SCV or whatever you call the mobile deploy platforms and stabbing people
[22:06:01] <nine> That wall of dead dudes goes on till the server goes down.
[22:06:18] <creamsteak> aye, but I'm not going to farm points for points sake even if that is efficient
[22:06:27] <nine> You shouldn't.
[22:06:30] <nine> That's not the point of the game.
[22:06:42] <creamsteak> well I'm not sure if the game has a point in any context
[22:06:58] <creamsteak> everything is ephemeral except for the certs/unlocks
[22:06:58] <nine> The point of the game is to defeat the enemy by being better skilled at herding cats and clicking heads.
[22:07:07] <Apsup> I also try to push foward to objective, but I'm a medic, reviving dead dudes comes first, killing living dudes comes second.
[22:07:25] <nine> Kill living dudes should come first.
[22:07:28] <nine> Can't rez if you're dead.
[22:07:28] <creamsteak> I'm a jetpack... with a knife
[22:07:44] <Apsup> Well, yea, depending on situation.
[22:07:56] <creamsteak> I had a medic rez a guy I just knifed in front of me.
[22:08:03] <creamsteak> I then knifed the medic, then the guy that rezzed
[22:08:04] <Apsup> I quite like the way medic plays on PS2, kinda like it was on Enemy Territory.
[22:08:56] <creamsteak> also vanu starter assault rifle is not bad
[22:09:01] <creamsteak> it's close range mostly, but not bad
[22:09:14] <Apsup> close to mid range.
[22:09:39] <Apsup> I'd say.
[22:10:11] <creamsteak> the whole energy damage fall-off thing I'm not sure about, I havn't been able to measure how fast the damage falls off
[22:10:29] <creamsteak> I did notice it at super long ranges
[22:11:30] <creamsteak> I kinda think the starter sniper rifles not so good though, I'd rather use the bolt-action one for sniping and the scout rifle for shorter ranges
[22:11:31] <nine> Fuck Vanu.
[22:11:33] <Apsup> Super long range maybe yes, but at that range you should be sniper.
[22:11:41] <nine> Their snipers are retarded from what I saw.
[22:11:50] <Apsup> !!! nine, what heresy you talk!
[22:11:59] <nine> That. Or the video creator was fucking amazing at countering the sway.
[22:12:13] <nine> I don't wanna fuck aliens Apsup.
[22:12:19] <nine> It's as simple as that.
[22:12:46] <nine> Also, not a fan of bolt-action snipers because it forces unscoping.
[22:13:56] <Apsup> Vanu doesn't fuck aliens. They might use alien sex toys found on some alien ruins, but using those is everybodys own personal thing.
[22:14:09] <GauntletWizard> ...
[22:14:23] <GauntletWizard> I decide to check on IRC always at the best tiems
[22:14:59] <nine> Vanu is aliens.
[22:15:09] <GauntletWizard> and they use alien sex toys?
[22:15:11] <nine> Do you really think they don't use the technology they found on their bodies?
[22:15:20] <nine> They've used it on their weapons, they used it on their bodies.
[22:15:32] <nine> They are freaks of nature not fit to live.
[22:16:07] <Apsup> Hey if using what is found to make lifes better is bad then so be it. I'll be bad then.
[22:16:17] <nine> Also, I think the bullet drop on the NC standard sniper rifle is ridiculous.
[22:16:29] <nine> That, or my scope's too fucking crazy.
[22:16:56] <nine> The bullet lands like 80% the way to the bottom edge of my scope upon shooting.
[22:17:12] <nine> (from Crown to the other base to the west)
[22:20:38] <creamsteak> I kinda wish the game had some natural incentives or something to get balanced fights going
[22:20:49] <creamsteak> a lot of the conflicts I was in were very one-sided in one way or form
[22:20:58] <creamsteak> and devolved rather quickly
[22:22:10] <creamsteak> I wouldn't mind some more interesting architecture either
[22:22:48] <nine> They can be very one-sided yeah.
[22:23:17] <nine> It's mostly due to the social aspects, i.e. platoon forming and communication, aren't that well fleshed out.
[22:23:56] <creamsteak> I got into one relatively organized platoon and stomped people for a while and it did get good when we finally encountered another platoon of enemies
[22:23:59] <creamsteak> I just want more of that
[22:24:56] <nine> I did as well the first time I played.
[22:25:03] <nine> And we proceeded to take the entire continent.
[22:25:08] <nine> One platoon.
[22:25:36] <creamsteak> aye, and probably meanwhile another platoon of the enemies was on an entirely different content also just farming stuff
[22:25:39] <nine> It will take a while for large, organized platoons to be made.
[22:25:50] <nine> Yup.
[22:25:56] <nine> We were on Esamir.
[22:26:09] <nine> The Terrans and Vanu there didn't put up a great fight.
[22:26:23] <nine> And went to the other continent.
[22:26:27] <creamsteak> if you're getting stomped too bad, just switch continents and go where the fighting is good
[22:27:55] <nine> Yup.
[22:28:07] <nine> Though sometimes that's not an option with 2 continents and 3 factions.
[22:28:09] <nine> Though we're getting more.
[22:28:16] <creamsteak> it sucks being me right now, I have all of 80 certs to my name when most people in the beta got tons of bonus certs and stuff
[22:28:36] <creamsteak> 3 continents right now
[22:29:14] <creamsteak> it's not a huge difference all the time, but I just want to be able to try some things at least
[22:29:42] <Apsup> I got tons of certs, was able to max my medic tool, armor and get two shitty assault rifles.
[22:31:33] <nine> it's not a huge difference all the time, but I just want to be able to try some things at least
[22:31:40] <nine> That's the problem with "beta" in this case.
[22:32:15] <nine> More and more games, Tribs, PS2, MWO, go public beta partially as a publicity stunt.
[22:32:29] <nine> To try and make money on hype.
[22:33:28] <creamsteak> it's funny that they're swinging such wild patches on stuff even now
[22:33:48] <nine> Because they get rushed.
[22:33:52] <nine> And SOE wants money.
[22:34:14] <creamsteak> SOE just closed final fantasy XIV to be re-openned later
[22:34:33] <creamsteak> just seems like one giant clusterfuck of a company to spend any dollars on whatsoever
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[23:26:19] <spacejam> even today internet explorer's legacy of sucking lives on
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