#geeknights | Logs for 2012-11-06

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[01:11:06] <Bronzdragon> I miss talking to you guys...
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[01:11:50] <Bronzdragon> D=
[01:12:50] <pence> they're dropping like flies!
[01:13:30] <Bronzdragon> yup
[01:37:14] <Coldguy> hi
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[02:16:13] <okeefe> Good evening.
[02:17:18] <pence> evening!
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[02:37:35] <Coldguy> hi
[02:38:26] <Coldguy> im watching rda if you care to join http://live.radiodeadair.com
[03:00:03] <Bronzdragon> RDA?
[03:00:49] <Coldguy> radio dead air
[03:00:56] <Bronzdragon> Never heard of it
[03:00:58] <Coldguy> its an online radio show
[03:01:09] <Coldguy> lots of interesting music\
[03:03:32] <Coldguy> my buddy hosts the show
[03:03:39] <Bronzdragon> How about instead I go sleep?
[03:03:47] <Bronzdragon> Btw, I tried to get into it, but couldn't...
[03:03:54] <Bronzdragon> Clicked play, nothing happened.
[03:03:55] <Coldguy> np
[03:04:03] <Coldguy> odd
[03:04:06] <Bronzdragon> Good night, Coldest of dudes.
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[03:04:17] <Coldguy> night
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[03:23:36] <Falseflow> hey geeknights
[03:23:45] <Coldguy> hi
[03:23:57] <ruffas> howdy
[03:24:05] <Falseflow> Just tryingout the IRC before I try to join the forums
[03:24:21] <Falseflow> I'm liking the podcast so far as well
[03:24:21] <Coldguy> ok?
[03:24:29] <Coldguy> welcome
[03:24:56] <Falseflow> thanks
[03:25:10] <Falseflow> Are people participating in the voting tomorrow?
[03:25:15] <ruffas> if you like the show, don't join the forum
[03:25:33] <Coldguy> ?
[03:25:33] <ruffas> there's a notorious habit of people quitting the show after joining the forums
[03:25:34] <Falseflow> If I like the show don't join the forum? ..... why
[03:25:49] <Falseflow> really
[03:25:57] <Coldguy> Well there is that but its not ALWAYS true
[03:26:03] <Falseflow> what the forums are more interesting or something?
[03:26:06] <ruffas> not always, sure
[03:26:20] <Coldguy> fourms is a cool place full of cool people
[03:26:24] <Falseflow> Well the show doesn't seem to be consistant so
[03:26:24] <ruffas> ^
[03:26:32] <ruffas> and muppit
[03:26:45] <Falseflow> muppit?
[03:26:50] <Coldguy> he joined only to biotch about connecticon
[03:26:57] <Coldguy> so technicaly an outlier
[03:27:06] <Coldguy> Muppet is a form member who likes to argue
[03:27:15] <Falseflow> flame war than
[03:27:24] <Coldguy> he is the only one
[03:27:28] <Falseflow> Coldguy: who ruffas?
[03:27:40] <Coldguy> considering forums its the best I found
[03:27:44] * Coldguy shrug
[03:28:15] <ruffas> it is quality
[03:28:26] <Falseflow> So there's an application process right?
[03:28:48] <ruffas> it's strenuous
[03:28:54] <ruffas> you have to prove you're human
[03:29:17] <ruffas> ...you are human, right?
[03:30:25] <Falseflow> Probably
[03:30:47] <Falseflow> What do bots join here just to spam everybody?
[03:30:57] <Falseflow> I've already reg'd with NickServ so
[03:31:32] <ruffas> oh, here? nah
[03:31:37] <Coldguy> its a :"are you humnan test:
[03:31:44] <ruffas> but there have been a few that slipped through the forum filter
[03:32:17] <Falseflow> Really odd, did Rym or Scott take care of it?
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[03:32:58] <ruffas> after everyone had a laugh at the bot, yeah
[03:33:05] <Falseflow> Haha sweet
[03:33:32] <Coldguy> its not like there is a bot on here or anything
[03:33:50] <Falseflow> For me reddit has gotten more of a browsing rather than contributing and 4chan is still just 4chan so I need an actual forum to go to
[03:33:56] <Falseflow> where's the ubuntu robot
[03:33:58] <Robobuntu> oo-BOON-too
[03:34:02] <Falseflow> oh there it is
[03:34:03] <Falseflow> nice
[03:34:20] <Coldguy> sign up and have fun
[03:34:25] <Coldguy> we do conventions
[03:34:30] <ruffas> Robobuntu's nice, but i wish there were 6 of him
[03:34:30] <Robobuntu> 6 of, can't lose!
[03:34:32] <Coldguy> like MAGfest
[03:34:53] <Falseflow> MAGfest? Never heard of it
[03:35:11] <ruffas> he's best when he's accidentally triggered
[03:35:43] <Coldguy> magfest.org
[03:35:45] <Coldguy> go to it
[03:35:48] <Coldguy> thank me later
[03:36:01] * Coldguy takes full credit for forum to go here
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[03:36:30] <Falseflow> Oh wow sounds cool
[03:36:42] <Coldguy> the second stage
[03:36:44] <Coldguy> MY GOD
[03:36:52] <Coldguy> if you are a music fan
[03:37:00] <Coldguy> cant go wrong
[03:38:02] <Falseflow> Yea I like freezepop and daft punk and oters
[03:38:04] <Falseflow> others*
[03:38:14] <Falseflow> just not gangnam style it's a bit too much for me now
[03:38:17] <Coldguy> if you like freezepo;
[03:38:24] <Coldguy> you NEED to go
[03:38:34] <ruffas> you should also PAX because PAX
[03:38:41] <Falseflow> Man when I played frequency and amplitude that's my childhood
[03:38:52] <Falseflow> I'm in seattle so I go to all of te pax
[03:38:53] <Falseflow> the*
[03:39:11] <ruffas> you been to Best PAX?
[03:39:43] <Falseflow> which was....?
[03:40:10] <Coldguy> pax east
[03:40:16] <Coldguy> :D
[03:40:48] <Falseflow> damn it can't go
[03:40:57] <Falseflow> pax-e is that much better than prime?
[03:41:41] <ruffas> worlds better ^_^
[03:42:22] <Coldguy> yup
[03:42:33] <Coldguy> MAGfest
[03:42:34] <Coldguy> go
[03:42:37] <Coldguy> go go
[03:42:39] <Coldguy> go
[03:44:11] <Falseflow> MAGfest does sound super cool
[03:44:25] <Coldguy> we got room share going
[03:44:27] <ruffas> it's entirely too far north for me though
[03:44:27] <Coldguy> and space open
[03:44:34] <Coldguy> ...
[03:44:38] <Coldguy> you are in seattle
[03:44:45] <Coldguy> its south from you
[03:45:25] <ruffas> i'm in orlando
[03:45:31] <ruffas> HE'S in seattle
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[03:45:37] <Coldguy> oh
[03:45:51] <Coldguy> you do have nerdapalozza
[03:46:00] <Coldguy> which i do need to see sometime
[03:46:31] <ruffas> i always forget about it
[03:46:35] <ruffas> and then it's over
[04:08:25] <pence> it pleases me that robobuntu is known even to people who haven't joined the forums
[04:09:39] <ruffas> as it should
[04:09:50] <Coldguy> yup
[04:11:15] <ruffas> you got any new tricks for him?
[04:12:02] <Coldguy> need a similtanously bot
[04:12:14] <Coldguy> for when two people say the same thing at teh same time
[04:12:32] <ruffas> that's too specific
[04:14:40] <pence> okeefe was telling me it needs to do "simultaneously" at burning con
[04:14:56] <pence> and then we were mocked for still not knowing where that meme comes from
[04:17:06] <ruffas> it sounds very march hare to me
[04:18:59] <pence> Rym accidentally used more of the quote, something like "I will cast two spells SIMULTANEOUSLY"
[04:19:11] <pence> so you know... look for that
[04:20:49] <yoshokatana> ugh
[04:20:59] <yoshokatana> so, my state is electing a senator this time
[04:21:20] <yoshokatana> and I'm debating between the democraft (Gillibrand) and the green party (clark)
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[04:21:47] <yoshokatana> the democrat is a center-right politician
[04:22:25] <yoshokatana> I agree with her on a lot of issues, but she's pro-war, anti-internet, and not really great on immigration reform
[04:22:25] <ruffas> i was mostly left with voting against people
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[04:22:59] <yoshokatana> the green party candidate is all up in those issues, but has some kooky anti-science things going on
[04:23:12] <yoshokatana> (anti-GMO, isolationist, etc)
[04:23:29] <ruffas> what's the O in GMO?
[04:23:35] <ruffas> organism?
[04:23:38] <yoshokatana> yeah
[04:23:58] <yoshokatana> the green party candidate's stance on genetic engineering could cripple research in NY state
[04:24:38] <yoshokatana> it's very much the mainsteam left's "oh no it isn't organic it must be bad" line
[04:25:02] <yoshokatana> they oversimplify things, and it worries me
[04:25:45] <yoshokatana> the green party candidate also wants to outlaw ALL coal mining
[04:25:57] <yoshokatana> and ALL oil drilling
[04:26:00] <yoshokatana> um...
[04:26:10] <ruffas> more oil algae?
[04:26:29] <yoshokatana> what about a nuanced approach that provides subsidies for research into alternative energy (and oil algae)?
[04:26:30] <yoshokatana> yeah
[04:27:02] <yoshokatana> it's like the people who say we should shut down all our nuclear plants IMMEDIATELY.
[04:27:20] <yoshokatana> you know what would happen if we did? PEOPLE WOULD DIE.
[04:27:28] <ruffas> like japan did?
[04:29:04] <yoshokatana> to the best of my knowledge, japan didn't immediately get rid of nuclear power
[04:29:13] <yoshokatana> I heard they were trying to phase it out
[04:29:34] <ruffas> not immediately, but they did
[04:30:41] <ruffas> they turned them all off in may
[04:32:35] <yoshokatana> they had the capacity to transition their grid off of nuclear?
[04:32:39] <yoshokatana> that's pretty impressive
[04:33:06] <yoshokatana> (from an infrastructure point of view. I kind of like nuclear power)
[04:34:04] <ruffas> from what i remember, they were well worried about summer energy prices
[04:34:09] <ruffas> but i haven't read much since then
[04:35:44] <yoshokatana> hmm
[04:36:07] <yoshokatana> interestingly, every NY senate candidate (including the republican) want to end the trade embargo with Cuba
[04:36:41] <ruffas> is there really a point to it anymore?
[04:37:06] <yoshokatana> the point is to punish americans by not letting us enjoy their delicious cigars
[04:37:33] <ruffas> they last time i remember thinking about it was when i read about a documentary about cuban car maintenance that i couldn't find a seed for
[04:37:51] <yoshokatana> and to preserve the beautifully maintained classic cars
[04:38:06] <yoshokatana> I ask you, what would happen if cuba could buy new cars?
[04:38:22] <yoshokatana> think of the lovely old cheverolets and fords that would go to rust!
[04:38:36] <yoshokatana> THINK OF THE TAIL FINS!
[04:39:24] <ruffas> i'm more interested in how they do it
[04:39:34] <ruffas> what with no new mats and all
[04:41:17] <yoshokatana> um
[04:41:33] <yoshokatana> the latest episode of castle is a star trek homage
[04:41:40] <yoshokatana> I am ok with this.
[04:41:49] <ruffas> i've heard there are a lot of firefly nods
[04:41:55] <ruffas> i'll watch it tomorrowish
[04:42:00] <yoshokatana> :-)
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[05:25:23] <Xiphias3> the irc episode reminded me this channel
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[06:49:54] <Apsup> Morning!
[06:58:41] <okeefe> Good midnight to you, Apsup.
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[11:08:48] <aria> This si great http://vestergaard.deviantart.com
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[12:19:55] <aria> This jerk summoned me and ran away without bowing >=(
[12:20:00] <aria> Not sure if I wanna beat the boss for him or not
[12:21:18] <aria> I let him die =)
[12:43:44] <aria> Oh noes
[12:43:51] <aria> I also let another person die, but not on purpose =(
[12:43:57] <aria> Im a bad phantom
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[12:57:35] <aria> hi
[12:58:11] <ruffas> hey
[13:00:56] <ruffas> you should watch the newest running man
[13:01:01] <ruffas> it has the best guest
[13:01:05] <aria> Who's in it?
[13:06:18] <ruffas> Choi Min Soo
[13:06:32] <aria> Who's that?
[13:07:00] <aria> Oh wait
[13:07:04] <aria> I know who that is
[13:07:36] <ruffas> he's the best running man
[13:09:20] <aria> This game is quite fun
[13:09:38] <Coldguy> hi
[13:09:43] <aria> Herro
[13:11:05] <ruffas> what game is that?
[13:11:10] <ruffas> and morning
[13:11:52] <aria> The one Im always playing =P
[13:13:02] <ruffas> still?
[13:13:07] <aria> Ugh huh
[13:14:47] <ruffas> that good, eh?
[13:15:10] <aria> I've been playing it for more than year already
[13:15:41] <aria> I think it has more to do with the lack of other equally good games
[13:17:00] <aria> Hey Apsup: Are these are other modern games that are Dark Soulsy?
[13:17:26] <aria> Or any old ones I might've not played (so not Zelda or Castlevania)
[13:18:07] <ruffas> you could play some shinobi or ninja gaiden
[13:18:36] <aria> Those aren't Dark Souly. That being said, I have played a my share of Shinobi and Ninja Gaiden both
[13:19:00] <ruffas> they're balls hard
[13:19:13] <aria> I don't actully like things being hard =P
[13:19:52] <ruffas> ...
[13:22:21] <aria> I like winning.. winning is fun
[13:23:00] <ruffas> and grinding manatees
[13:23:52] <aria> Well, if you play it singleplayer, you don't ever need to farm
[13:24:05] <aria> But you need to have loose humanity to play online
[13:24:09] <aria> and you lose those when you die
[13:24:29] <aria> So if you die, you need to get a new one to play more online
[13:24:47] <aria> That being said, you usually get more than you need by just playing
[13:25:26] <aria> Im helping people with bosses for fun currently, but every time you kill a boss in someone elses world, you get a free humanity
[13:26:00] <ruffas> ooh, free manatees
[13:26:05] <aria> I have 39 currently.
[13:27:15] <ruffas> is that a lot?
[13:27:49] <aria> Well its 39 deaths
[13:28:42] <aria> I can die 39 times without having to go get more humanity
[13:31:52] <ruffas> that's cool
[13:31:54] <ruffas> i guess
[13:37:34] <aria> =/ Well I died
[13:38:36] <aria> ...
[13:38:37] <aria> ..
[13:38:43] <aria> >=(
[13:38:45] <aria> Fuck this game
[13:39:07] <aria> Lost 5 humanity and 100k souls (at SL38)
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[13:40:50] <aria> Bronz, why does Dark Souls hate me?
[13:41:35] <ruffas> because you love it
[13:45:13] <bronzdragon> I think this is the case
[13:45:40] <bronzdragon> You pull Dark Souls too close, and it resents you for that
[13:45:50] <bronzdragon> It doesn't know how to show love, and thus it lashes out instead.
[13:46:24] <bronzdragon> :3
[13:46:44] <aria> I was testing out the parry timing on some enemies that suck to fight as my dude and died like a dumbass. Then when trying to get my stuff back from my corpse, 4 dudes punch me at once on a narrow bridge, but I somehow survive. Giant pendant axe thing almost kills me, I dodge just in time and land where a different one can hit me, I somehow manage to not get hit by the second one, and then my leg slips and I fall down from the side of the bridg
[13:47:36] <bronzdragon> I see. In that case, Dark Souls hates you because you're doing dumb things
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[13:47:56] <bronzdragon> Not being patient, and also messing around where you should not be.
[13:47:56] <ruffas> seems like
[13:50:44] <bronzdragon> Skyrim is weird sometimes; http://www.awkwardzombie.com
[13:51:16] <ruffas> dem apples
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[13:52:23] <bronzdragon> Hey luke
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[14:09:33] <lukeburrage> Hello
[14:16:21] <Coldguy> hi
[14:16:26] <bronzdragon> Haaaai
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[14:40:31] <lukeburrage> Test.
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[14:56:43] <aria> Test successful
[14:57:58] <aria> 003F6B2A 00000000
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[17:00:32] <bronzdragon> spacejam
[17:03:14] <spacejam> bronzdragon
[17:03:38] <bronzdragon> I just got 200 rupees
[17:03:57] <bronzdragon> but... I had full money already
[17:04:15] <bronzdragon> I guess I can't leave a single 200 silver rupee laying in the boat
[17:04:15] <okeefe> bronzdragon: Please play door repair charge.
[17:04:18] <aria> He also just did his first Zelda dungeon, which he died on a surprising amount of times
[17:04:55] <bronzdragon> lava is deadly
[17:06:24] <okeefe> I was surprised Twilight Princess didn't let me pick up a rupee I couldn't hold. The Zelda I played before that was ALttP, though.
[17:07:06] <aria> Bronz is playing The Wind Waker, its 1 game before Twilight Princess. There it's just gone forever if you can't hold it
[17:13:20] <okeefe> Eventually there will be a way for me to play the Zeldas I missed without having to spring for dead consoles.
[17:13:53] <spacejam> How could you possibly do something like that?
[17:14:46] <aria> Bronz is playing on Dolphin
[17:14:54] <aria> There is also a n64 emulator
[17:16:03] <spacejam> but yeah, that's the only way i've ever played any nes games
[17:16:21] <spacejam> i kind of want to set it up now even though i've an actual wii
[17:18:23] <aria> Dolphin is in HD
[17:18:28] <aria> also good framerate
[17:19:56] <okeefe> Hm, I should take a look at Dolphin.
[17:21:24] <bronzdragon> Dolphin is honestly really good
[17:21:36] <bronzdragon> As far as emulators go, that one is well done
[17:22:21] <okeefe> Actually, this is really just making me want to replay Chrono Trigger...
[17:22:44] <spacejam> you can do that on phones now
[17:24:21] <okeefe> True. I bought Secret of Mana for iOS and haven't touched it. I should start there.
[17:27:56] <aria> There's Dolphin for Android actually
[17:28:05] <aria> So you can play the wind waker on your phone too!
[17:28:30] <aria> The framerate might be low, but if you disable a bunch of effects, make the resolution small and draw distance small, it'll probably run ok
[17:28:35] <spacejam> so wait wait wait
[17:28:45] <spacejam> i set up an infared bar
[17:28:48] <spacejam> next to my phone
[17:28:56] <spacejam> and then i have a wiimmote
[17:28:58] <bronzdragon> ... aha?
[17:28:58] <spacejam> and my phone
[17:29:00] <spacejam> hahahahahha
[17:29:15] <bronzdragon> You realize Dolphin does Gamecube games too...
[17:29:24] <bronzdragon> Also, not every wii game needs a wiimote
[17:29:43] <spacejam> i prefer to imagine the most interesting possibilities
[17:29:51] <spacejam> but yeah, those could work too
[17:29:56] <bronzdragon> phones have accelerators
[17:30:01] <bronzdragon> and touch screens.
[17:30:09] <bronzdragon> (Juz sayin')
[17:30:34] <spacejam> so you're saying i have no excuse to hook a sensor bar up to my phone
[17:31:11] <bronzdragon> What you should do is get 2 phones with infra-red data transfer
[17:31:17] <bronzdragon> And use those as a sensor bar
[17:31:24] <spacejam> it's phones all the way down
[17:33:24] <spacejam> so you can replace the console, the tv and the sensor bar with phones
[17:33:30] <spacejam> now all we need to do is replace the controller with a phone
[17:39:50] <aria> Point on the phone that is the screen where you wanna point with the wiimote
[17:40:03] <aria> then shake a sperate phone that acts as the controller
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[18:23:36] <bronzdragon> My teeth hurt.
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[18:55:07] <aria> People of the geeknights
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[18:55:40] <MATATAT> ermagherd i did it
[18:56:17] <aria> are there any role playing games with medieval or fantasy settings that are recent and well done?
[18:56:18] <bronzdragon> =O
[18:57:15] <aria> So not the dragon age kind where you're going through a campagn and you have stats, but the Skyrim kind where most of the effort was put into the world and random NPCs, rather than the main story
[18:57:33] <aria> (Cept Skyrim isn't done well, because the combat is ass, and there are too many zombie-dungeons)
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[19:01:39] <MATATAT> good luck
[19:02:34] <MATATAT> any game where you want what you want will not be good
[19:02:43] <bronzdragon> Why not?
[19:02:44] <MATATAT> skyrim is probably the best
[19:02:51] <aria> Skyrim is close to being good
[19:03:18] <MATATAT> exactly, all the others may have more of what you want but it's going to be shit combat
[19:03:24] <aria> Skyrim probably would've been good if they didn't build it on legacy shit from morrowind
[19:03:28] <MATATAT> or just monotinous
[19:03:33] <MATATAT> or just shit
[19:03:45] <aria> See--
[19:03:50] <aria> I could've done the Skyrim combat well
[19:03:58] <aria> /Anyone/ could improve the skyrim combat
[19:04:13] <MATATAT> like the only games that sort of fall into what you want are like the Gothic games
[19:04:22] <aria> Im guessing the reason the people who made it didn't do it well was because it requires too much Morrowind hacking
[19:04:25] <MATATAT> but theyre super cumbersome
[19:04:32] <aria> Are those recent?
[19:04:44] <MATATAT> not really
[19:04:51] <MATATAT> although you can get them on steam
[19:05:00] <aria> Skyrim is still a fun game because of the community patches
[19:05:08] <MATATAT> theres another series im thinking of but i cant remember the name
[19:05:29] <aria> And everyone and their mom has made a combat tweak to /improve/ it. But no one has redone it from scratch, and you can't really fix something so broken =P
[19:05:47] <aria> Bronz mentioned Never Winter Nights
[19:06:17] <aria> There is Dragon's Dogma, which does everything right other than the world =P
[19:06:36] <MATATAT> NWN is more like Dragon age
[19:06:44] <aria> Maybe someone can make a thing that imports the skyrim world into Dragon's Dogma
[19:10:47] <MATATAT> I would just suggest playing Dark Souls
[19:11:00] <aria> It's playing Dark Souls that makes me wish Skyrim had good combat
[19:11:12] <aria> I'm trying to think how to adapt the Skyrim combat into first person
[19:11:16] <aria> At least the sword and shield part of it
[19:11:30] <aria> A lot of the problem with Skyrim is that you can't tell how long your sword is
[19:11:41] <aria> so you need a better visual que to tell you when you're hitting dudes
[19:11:51] <MATATAT> hand to hand combat in any FPS is either going to be skyrim mostly or like melee hit in a shooting game
[19:11:51] <aria> And melee needs to be more deadly in general
[19:12:23] <MATATAT> we need
[19:12:26] <MATATAT> 3D
[19:12:54] <bronzdragon> Not sure that would fix 1st person melee
[19:13:19] <MATATAT> its sort of the way the camera needs to be rendered
[19:14:52] <aria> Yeah 3D would help a lot
[19:14:57] <aria> and the Zelda freeze
[19:15:20] <aria> Bronz suggested having swords bounce off people when you hit people
[19:15:31] <aria> Well not bounce off
[19:15:37] <aria> but get stuck, then your dude pulls it back
[19:15:52] <aria> I think having more emphasis on using the shield would really help
[19:16:03] <aria> And making it so that when you hold your shield up, you can't see
[19:16:28] <aria> It should also be noted that Skyrim has horrible combat in third person too
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[19:19:57] <okeefe> I got all excited until I realized that aria was asking about computer rpgs.
[19:20:18] <aria> What did you think we were talking about?
[19:20:51] <okeefe> From your initial question (which is as far as I got before realizing), tabletop.
[19:21:29] <aria> I haven't actually ever played a tabletop RPG
[19:22:00] <okeefe> I mean, there's Burning Wheel. If you want a streamlined D&D-like experience, I think Dungeon World hits all the right points. Someone's working on a Skyrim hack for it.
[19:23:25] <aria> ...Excuse my ignorance, but I don't believe there are any tabletop RPGs with "good combat", or "Dark Souls" combat
[19:24:22] <bronzdragon> I could see good combat, but not Dark souls style combat
[19:24:41] <aria> How do you do good combat without it being a vidja game?
[19:24:46] <aria> Other than larping perhaps
[19:24:57] <bronzdragon> Tactical decision based
[19:25:00] <okeefe> Having not played DS, I can't help you on that point. What sort of goodness do you expect from combat?
[19:25:01] <bronzdragon> Rather then reaction time based
[19:25:20] <bronzdragon> Combat that is dexterity and reaction time based
[19:25:24] <bronzdragon> Rather than stat based.
[19:25:28] <aria> Well, you have a sword and shield, and you have to be careful when to lower your shild to attack and such
[19:25:40] <okeefe> 4e D&D does tactical grid combat. Unfortunately, it doesn't do much else.
[19:26:24] <bronzdragon> Would you call D&D combat "good"?
[19:26:28] <aria> Another thing that Skyrim does badly is characters acknowledging your accomplishments. When I spend 3 hours doing a stupid quest that makes me king of all sheep, I don't want every sheep I meet to have the same dialog as pre-sheep-king-ness
[19:26:32] <okeefe> And like most D&D, it kind of falls apart at high levels.
[19:28:11] <okeefe> "Good" is an awfully personal, subjective topic.
[19:28:33] <bronzdragon> Bad we can all agree on though
[19:28:39] <aria> =P
[19:28:48] <aria> People tend to think the same things are good
[19:29:07] <aria> Do you think the D&D combat is fun?
[19:29:26] <bronzdragon> You're being awefully non-comital...
[19:30:41] <okeefe> I've had fun with 4e combat at low (<10) level. But in four hours you get about four fights. It doesn't scratch the right roleplay itch for me, though, and there's an implicit emphasis on character optimization which means more work for me away from the table. 4e is very fun to DM, though.
[19:31:14] <bronzdragon> I see
[19:31:59] <aria> Maybe I should play some tabletop RPGs if I want actual roleplaying
[19:32:07] <aria> But Dark Souls is so good! >=(
[19:32:10] <bronzdragon> =P
[19:32:14] <aria> Why can't there be a second good game?
[19:35:39] <MATATAT> demon souls?
[19:35:49] <bronzdragon> *Demon's
[19:36:02] <MATATAT> details
[19:36:04] <aria> =P Doesn't count
[19:36:21] <aria> I actually haven't played Demon's Souls. I'm going to at some point (soon)
[19:36:34] <aria> But Demon's Souls has levels
[19:36:41] <MATATAT> its basically just dark souls but not as solid of an experience
[19:36:43] <MATATAT> but still good
[19:36:44] <aria> While Dark Souls has a really well done world
[19:37:11] <MATATAT> exactly
[19:37:32] <aria> Dark Souls has a crazy attention to detail and a super realized world -- I don't need that in a Skyrim, but at least I want a step above what Skyrim offers
[19:37:58] <aria> (also Dark Souls has like 30 dudes in it =P So Skyrim is not all that great for a Skyrim substitute)
[19:40:21] <aria> Zelda used to be good...
[19:41:50] <MATATAT> before they just like
[19:42:03] <MATATAT> I think the guy who is working on Second Quest said it best
[19:42:13] <MATATAT> theres basically no mystery in zelda anymore
[19:43:04] <aria> The first Zelda I played that didn't feel like Zelda to me was Twilight Princess. And then Skyward Sword (which I thought was a much better game) was even less Zelda-esc
[19:43:17] <aria> So I liked the first 3 3D ones
[19:43:23] <aria> I really liked Majora's Mask
[19:43:40] <aria> Luckily there is Dark Souls now for your Zelda fix =)
[19:44:51] <MATATAT> dark souls has so much more though
[19:45:04] <MATATAT> there isn't a whole lot of customization in zelda
[19:45:08] <MATATAT> or at all really
[19:45:18] <aria> Well yeah, it's better, but it's aslo 20 years newer
[19:45:53] <aria> If you showed me Dark Souls right after I played Zelda 1, and told me it was Zelda #15, I'd believe that.
[19:47:17] <okeefe> The Twilight Princess dungeons felt/were a multi-hour slog. I wasn't expecting that, going in. It didn't help that the second one involved wearing metallic boots on magnetic walls, which are slow as hell.
[19:47:39] <bronzdragon> Ugh, yeah
[19:47:50] <aria> Skyward sword doesn't have towns. There are just pre-dungeons before every dungeon
[19:47:52] <aria> it sucks
[19:48:07] <aria> If you're gonna play either Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess, you really need to play it with mods
[19:48:12] <aria> at least increase walk speed
[19:48:18] <MATATAT> the art and color pallette really turned me off to twilight princess
[19:48:28] <bronzdragon> Really?
[19:48:33] <bronzdragon> I thought it looked pretty
[19:48:37] <MATATAT> the twilight world was really annoying i though
[19:48:58] <MATATAT> everything was like sort of sepia
[19:49:05] <aria> I really really liked Wind Waker. But I also thought Twilight Princess was pretty, and it looked how I expected a 3D Zelda to look
[19:49:21] <aria> Ah, but there wasn't actually that much twilight World content
[19:49:23] <okeefe> I'm no fan of brown, but I liked the art from TP.
[19:49:24] <aria> only an hour or two
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[19:49:50] <bronzdragon> TP wasn't that brown...
[19:50:01] <aria> Bronz, you're currently playing Wind Waker
[19:50:07] <MATATAT> i just couldn't really get past it, i didn't really think the characters were that neat either
[19:50:19] <aria> do you really not think it's more brown than the sequel to the Wind Waker should be =P?
[19:50:22] <bronzdragon> I really disliked the half chicken character.
[19:50:32] <aria> Oh yeah I hated those
[19:50:38] <bronzdragon> I don't think of TP as a sequel to Wind Waker
[19:50:49] <MATATAT> I liked everything about wind waker except for the shitty treasure hunt bullshit endgame
[19:50:52] <bronzdragon> Just as a different style for the same game...
[19:51:05] <MATATAT> i literally just stopped playing and never went back at that point
[19:51:14] <bronzdragon> I don't like how often Lin jumps into the lava...
[19:51:39] <aria> Thats because you can't walk..
[19:52:11] <aria> Yeah, the end game treasure hunt was really bad -- but it's worth it for the final stretch
[19:52:24] <aria> I reccomnd loading up your old save and cheating past that point so you can see the last area
[19:52:40] <MATATAT> well since i saw someone play the end part i just skipped it
[19:52:52] <aria> I see. Fair enough then
[19:52:58] <bronzdragon> So you did look back?
[19:53:01] <bronzdragon> Why did you lie!
[19:53:33] <MATATAT> well I saw the ending before i actually got to that point
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[19:53:37] <MATATAT> so no lie :P
[19:53:44] <bronzdragon> Ah, that's fair
[19:55:31] <okeefe> Ten years ago I would have been completionist about the minigames. But not anymore.
[19:55:54] <aria> Anyway, I think Dark Souls could work in first person with some tweaks. And I wish Skyrim would use that system
[19:55:58] <okeefe> Maybe if they were fun or had tight controls or had enough information.
[19:56:21] <bronzdragon> I remember trying to cut bamboo...
[19:56:34] <bronzdragon> It was inconsistent, to say the least.
[19:56:49] <aria> Really? You waggle your stick and the bamboo gets cut
[19:57:25] <bronzdragon> *wiimotw
[19:57:35] <bronzdragon> but we couldn't consistently get the same number of bamboos
[19:57:42] <aria> Oh I can
[19:57:57] <aria> But then again, I've only tried with my cheat sword that is 5 times the size it's supposed to be
[19:58:06] <bronzdragon> Ah...
[19:58:20] <bronzdragon> Sometimes I'd get like... 5, and sometimes 20
[19:58:26] <bronzdragon> where 30 was the goal
[19:59:08] <aria> Actually, 28 is the highest goal
[20:00:05] <bronzdragon> eh, close enough
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[20:04:07] <aria> There's a DnD MMO
[20:04:25] <aria> is there any chance of that having good combat and also a world that feels alive?
[20:05:20] <bronzdragon> I think it has okay combat
[20:05:26] <bronzdragon> (IE, not MMO combat)
[20:05:42] <aria> That has to be the best MMO ever then =P
[20:08:07] <Apsup> There has been DnD mmo for ages. Is this soe new thig or did the news about it just now reach under your rock?
[20:08:29] <aria> Ive known about it for a while
[20:08:33] <aria> I don't believe there is a new one
[20:08:53] <aria> I was considering doing tabletop RPGs because they usually have better RPGing, because yknow, people making the NPCs
[20:08:59] <aria> So they can write new dialog on the fly
[20:09:20] <aria> And then I remembered there was aa DnD vidja game
[20:09:33] <aria> and since it's trying to be DnD, it has to try to RPG
[20:10:11] <aria> I actually would not mind the Skyrim combat as much if there were 1/100th of the amount of fights. Or if I could talk my way out of them
[20:19:41] <Apsup> Just because Videogame uses DnD's system doesn't make it tabletop RPG. Not even near. Unless we get some amazing future AI systems, videogame can't replace an tabletop-rpg and tabletop-rpg can't replace videogame.
[20:20:13] <aria> If you're using a tabletop brand, you'll want to emulate the DnD experience as closely as possible
[20:20:41] <aria> and if I understand it right, the DnD experience is good roleplaying and not so much loot, stats and fun gameplay
[20:21:34] <bronzdragon> ...
[20:21:41] <bronzdragon> ....
[20:21:43] <bronzdragon> .....
[20:21:45] <bronzdragon> .....
[20:23:25] <spacejam> the fuse is lit, where's the boom?
[20:23:40] <bronzdragon> *KABLAUW*
[20:23:44] <MATATAT> dnd is primarily about loot and stats haha
[20:23:54] <bronzdragon> Eyup
[20:23:58] <MATATAT> fun is subjective
[20:24:06] <MATATAT> and it doesnt focus much on rp
[20:24:15] <MATATAT> which is where burning wheel comes in
[20:24:17] <bronzdragon> Every table top is about ostensibally about having fun
[20:24:18] <MATATAT> or games like it
[20:24:25] <bronzdragon> 'cept super serious ones, i guess?
[20:24:37] <spacejam> oh that's a good quiz
[20:24:46] <spacejam> think of games that are not about having fun
[20:25:03] <Apsup> Every table top game is about having "fun" in same way as every videogame is about having "fun".
[20:25:05] <bronzdragon> Rock paper scissors
[20:25:27] <spacejam> that can be fun
[20:25:29] <spacejam> how about coin flip
[20:25:44] <Apsup> Excitement as long as coin is in the ari.
[20:25:47] <Apsup> *air.
[20:26:05] <okeefe> D&D is about killing things and taking their stuff. BW is about fighting for what you believe in.
[20:26:12] <Apsup> Of course if ari eats the coin that can also be source of fun.
[20:26:16] <aria> Sure, but in Bagai O and Skyrim, you get your fun from somewhere else
[20:26:25] <MATATAT> fun is essentially satisfaction and enjoyment
[20:26:38] <Apsup> Good boy okeefe you have listened Geeknights episodes about DnD and Burning Wheel. Let's move onwards.
[20:26:40] <MATATAT> so it is wherever you find those
[20:26:53] <aria> Bagai O is fun because of the actions you do, while Skyrim is fun because of the results of the actions you do~
[20:26:53] <okeefe> One would hope that the experience of an RPG is fun, but RPGs aren't optimized for fun as fun can't be usefully quantified.
[20:27:24] <Apsup> Bangi O is fun from the feeling of accomplishment and achievement you get when you succeed.
[20:28:15] <aria> What? I had the most fun when I lost, Ima be honest =P
[20:28:28] <aria> Winning was dissapointing, cause then I had to play a different level
[20:28:50] <aria> And that wasn't the level i had been working on getting the perfect strategy for for the past 5 minutes
[20:28:50] <Apsup> Well you are just wrong. Again.
[20:29:00] <Apsup> So did you actually get it?
[20:29:13] <aria> Nah, been playing DkS all day
[20:29:42] <Apsup> I'll wait untill I find live gold offer so I can get gold and play it like it's meant to be played.
[20:30:15] <bronzdragon> Leaderboards?
[20:30:34] <Apsup> No I meant Dark Souls.
[20:30:43] <bronzdragon> x3 I see
[20:30:43] <Apsup> Playing it with online enabled.
[20:31:06] <bronzdragon> I was thinking Bangai
[20:32:04] <Apsup> Yea, that needs no gold.
[20:32:49] <aria> I could see that being one of the few games were leaderboards are fun
[20:33:05] <aria> I like leaderboards in time-based games, like Sonic
[20:33:55] <Apsup> Actually you might not need gold to leaderboard in xbox games. That works with free stuff usually.
[20:34:44] <Apsup> Well I'm off for a moment to do some last minute shopping. Be back in about 10.
[20:35:07] <bronzdragon> Have fun!
[20:35:20] <Apsup> Shopping is always hilarious.
[20:38:09] <bronzdragon> =D
[20:38:15] <bronzdragon> Depends what you shop for..
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[20:42:03] <aria> is super snorlax weak against lightning?
[20:42:11] <aria> I mean, he takes Pikachu's lightning powers..
[20:44:40] <ruffas> wait, what?
[20:44:49] <bronzdragon> DkS
[20:44:59] <bronzdragon> It has Pikachu and Snorlax as bosses
[20:45:19] <ruffas> oh
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[20:49:51] <bronzdragon> Hi ruffas again
[20:50:00] <aria> Ruffas, are there any good vidja game RPGs?
[20:50:40] <ruffas> mario rpg?
[20:51:04] <aria> With more roleplaying and less stats and loot
[20:51:07] <bronzdragon> Close... =P
[20:51:16] <bronzdragon> He means table top RPG style
[20:51:22] <bronzdragon> Making choices, building a character...
[20:52:14] <Apsup> That is so open question that unless you start defining term you use it's impossible to answer.
[20:52:17] <Apsup> Or the answer is no.
[20:52:52] <ruffas> BESM and Exalted are fairly gamey?
[20:53:23] <aria> Shouldn't the fact that is open make it easier, although the answer might be rejected?
[20:53:30] <okeefe> Planescape: Torment is the closest thing to what you're asking that I've played, aria.
[20:54:02] <aria> Alright, lets check out planetscape...
[20:54:32] <Apsup> No it makes it harder. With open undefined question you leave the defenition of term to answerer and in that case no.
[20:55:13] <Apsup> Wait. If you consider Sleep is Death a videogame then that might be.
[20:55:50] <okeefe> No T in Planescape.
[20:56:14] <aria> google corrected me
[20:56:34] <okeefe> There are stats and combat, but you don't have to go that route if you don't want to.
[20:57:15] <okeefe> Or, you don't have to optimize that route. If you pump up your int/wis/cha, you get more dialog options. Etc.
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[20:59:42] <aria> We're gonna try Sleep is Death
[20:59:49] <aria> Planescape seems-- old
[21:00:00] <aria> and thus probably doesn't have a lot of content
[21:00:09] <aria> but Ill watch more stuff
[21:00:19] <bronzdragon> Sleep is death download (Plz don't pirate) http://sleepisdeath.net
[21:00:20] <spacejam> lol just play it
[21:00:35] <spacejam> ack a wild link appeared
[21:00:46] <spacejam> should i click on it?
[21:02:17] <bronzdragon> It's 2 players only
[21:02:28] <bronzdragon> So... unless you have someone to run it for you, it's not going to be fun
[21:03:04] <Apsup> That's why I said that it only works if you define Sleep is Death a video game. I see it as a roleplaying system.
[21:03:22] <bronzdragon> It is
[21:03:30] <bronzdragon> Aria really just wants a roleplaying experience
[21:03:34] <bronzdragon> But has nobody to play it with
[21:03:45] <spacejam> oh i see
[21:03:47] <spacejam> interesting
[21:04:15] <Apsup> That's kinda problemaic as for me the thing about roleplaying experience is that it needs other people. it's not solowork.
[21:04:27] <bronzdragon> Indeed!
[21:04:41] <bronzdragon> We wouldn't be talking about it for 2 hours if it was an easy problem to solve!
[21:04:52] <aria> ...
[21:04:55] <aria> Well I like video games
[21:05:09] <aria> Where if Im good at timing my punches, I can punch dudes
[21:05:13] <aria> ...so there's that too
[21:05:13] <ruffas> play neverwinter nights or something
[21:05:22] <bronzdragon> (He also wants combat during it)
[21:06:51] <aria> The option to talk my way out of it is also nice-- I basically just want Skyrim not to be bad
[21:06:58] <aria> But it is bad, and no one has made it good yet!
[21:08:05] <Apsup> Well, giving player an almost infinite amount of options to do is pretty much impossible right now.
[21:08:16] <bronzdragon> It doesn't need infinite options
[21:08:21] <bronzdragon> Just a lot.
[21:09:14] <spacejam> Does it need a lot? There are some games where people don't even discover what they might be able to do
[21:09:50] <aria> Skyrim has enough stuff in it. Skyrim would be better if it was just the unique quests, and they removed all the "Go find my toothpick in this zombie dungeon" quests
[21:10:40] <aria> spacejam: Well it should feel like there's a lot. Doesn't need to actually be a lot
[21:11:33] <spacejam> i have to think about this
[21:12:01] <spacejam> if i play, say, diablo 2, i never really spend any time thinking about the things i can't do
[21:12:04] <Apsup> The problem lies in that lot might be enough for one person, but not for another. And when you start adding up lots of multiple people you get close to infinity.
[21:12:24] <spacejam> it's only when you create a world that makes something seem like a possibility that suddenly you need to be able to try that possibility
[21:12:42] <spacejam> it would be really annoying if you could reach the edge of a map in deus ex
[21:12:47] <spacejam> or find a grate that's just textures
[21:13:10] <spacejam> but if that happened in unreal tournament it wouldn't matter
[21:13:37] <spacejam> the problem with an RPG with real people is that we expect a lot out of real people
[21:14:32] <aria> Well it doesn't need to be all that sophisticated. You're willing to forgive some things for the fact that it has pretty graphics and voice work in it
[21:15:10] <aria> Even if a game has a main campaign, if I don't realize I'm following it, I'd count that
[21:15:21] <spacejam> part of why planescape is awesome is that most of the dialogue is written, so npcs can say as much as we'd expect humans to say
[21:15:58] <aria> I see
[21:16:18] <spacejam> voice acting has to line up pretty well for it to be as immersive as text, because we can make assumptions in our minds when it's just text
[21:16:47] <Apsup> Is it just me or does voting in America seem compicated? At least that's what I get form the forum dicussions.
[21:16:50] <spacejam> http://www.escapistmagazine.com
[21:17:04] <spacejam> i vote absentee
[21:17:16] <spacejam> even the forms were a little weird, but not terrible
[21:17:24] <spacejam> it's not a conveniently packaged activity
[21:17:37] <spacejam> i hear about people waiting in line for 6 hours
[21:17:37] <Robobuntu> 6 hours, can't lose!
[21:17:42] <spacejam> shush
[21:17:44] <spacejam> it's ridiculous
[21:17:45] <okeefe> If you do try PS:T, there are patches out there for fullscreen at decent resolution, bugfixes, etc.
[21:18:02] <spacejam> agree with okeefe. check out GOG.com's stuff on PST
[21:19:09] <aria> Oh it's on Gog?
[21:19:21] <aria> Yey, then it runs under linux =D
[21:19:29] <aria> Ill check it out then
[21:19:45] <aria> Right now Im trying to get sleepisdeath, but packer is being horrible
[21:28:46] <ruffas> Apsup: re: american voting
[21:28:47] <ruffas> http://www.youtube.com
[21:30:26] <MATATAT> is there a thread for face swaps?
[21:30:30] <MATATAT> because there needs to be
[21:31:10] <aria> Sleepisdeath guy trying to make it as hard as possible to run his game on purpose?
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[21:49:22] <bronzdragon> ruffas, why did you leave?
[21:49:28] <bronzdragon> I missed you for those 6 minutes
[21:49:28] <Robobuntu> 6 minutes, can't lose!
[21:51:14] <ruffas> because stupid internet
[21:52:10] <aria> Bronz missed the backstory of Wind Waker
[21:52:13] <aria> that was the coolest part
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[22:02:59] <Apsup> Another funny thing about Americas voting day which I realized today was that today is Tuesday. It made me think about the fact that here we always vote on Sunday (unless you vote before the official voting day) and when you think about it, Sunday is more fitting day for voting for most people than Middle of the week.
[22:03:57] <ruffas> yep
[22:04:04] <ruffas> tuesday is a dumb day
[22:04:08] <ruffas> but it's traditional
[22:09:48] <bronzdragon> That's not the biggest problem
[22:10:00] <bronzdragon> (With American Voting
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[22:17:18] <ruffas> it's not
[22:17:24] <ruffas> but it's a problem
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[22:40:10] <lukeburrage> Hey hey!
[22:41:23] <bronzdragon> Hi luke
[22:44:16] <aria> Good night Luke
[22:44:34] <aria> (And also everyone else)
[22:44:42] <bronzdragon> Ciao!
[22:44:47] <bronzdragon> (Leaving as well)
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[22:48:42] <lukeburrage> Well, fuck you two too.
[22:53:47] <okeefe> LOL
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